Yamaha YH5000SE orthodynamic headphones (HP-1 successor)

Just so everyone has context.





This is what the ""modernized"" orthodynamic flagship measures like.





And this is what the HP-1000 from 1978 measures like. Yes, that is the same measurement SPL.

One of these retails for about $150 USD, ~$700 when factoring in inflation.

The other is five thousand dollars.



They had the nerve to place these drivers next to each other on a display at an audio show. Now I wonder if they even listened to the old one.

Please do not buy this piece of horribly priced, predatory garbage.

Of all people, I am possibly the biggest advocate for the old big Japanese names like Pioneer, Yamaha, Sansui, Victor etc making a resurgence.

This is not the way to do it.

Shame on them.

 

"UHH UHH THATS NOT FAIR ITS NOT AN HP-1000 SUCCESSOR YOU SHOULDVE COMPARED IT TO THE HP-1"

 

FWIW - I heard these in Feb in Japan (so whatever version was out there at the time) from what most of us would consider to be a few different "mid-fi level" chains at various store demos - with gear that has definitely been heard by many members here before. Short answer is the headphones by themselves are OK. Definitely some weirdness going on as reflected in the FR plots and as mentioned above. For me, it was clean but just kind of dead sounding, but not in a limp way like an under-powered planar often sounds.

Even if I try to account for the fact that the chains were not TOTL, for ~$550,000 JPY (probably $3750 after tax refund and currency conversion at the time), I would not buy these. If I was a bigger planar fan, had the right amps, and these were half off at $1900 USD, I probably still wouldn't do it - I could spent $1900 on other hobbies or even just goofing around on the same trip I tried these headphones on and get much more enjoyment / happiness.

Also, FWIW - at the first store I tried the Yamaha 5k, on the same chains, I enjoyed the AT ADX5000 and Fostex TH909 much more. While I would lightly tune or mod both of them if I were to get one as their stock sound isn't perfect for me either, I think both of these have a higher "ceiling" of potential / performance than this Yamaha 5k. I also used a recent HD650 as a figurative palate cleanser and it did sound as I expected it to sound on said chains. I mention this in case more feedback about the chain, amp requirements, or general synergy later shows that I messed up and judged this too harshly too early.

 

I heard the YH5000SE at CanJam and it was one of the worst things I heard at the show. It was so bad I couldn’t believe something wasn’t wrong with it. I’m a glutton for punishment so I put my money where my mouth is since I love Yamaha orthos so much and bought a pair.

It sucks. It sucks less, but it still sucks. The bass is bloated and with really bassy music, the diaphragm hits the front grill.


The midrange between 1-2kHz is really, really shouty—more so than the YH100. Upper midrange is gone. The treble is grittier than the older orthos too.

Power probably isn’t the problem too; I mainly used it out of my Dartzeel NHB108 clone with a ZDSE as a pre and it still sucks. It sucks out of the Fiio Q7 and the DG300B in the first picture too.

The problem, I think, is that if this driver has any relation to the older orthodynamics, the driver is much too far from the ear. I’ve tried finding replacement pads for my old orthos and anything that wasn’t flat as a pancake made upper midrange disappear. It doesn’t shock me that this design does…exactly that. Hilariously, I slapped on some Fostex T50RP pads and upper midrange made an appearance, but treble was harsher. It does come with two pairs of pads—the leather pads dip midrange a bit more than the suedes, but the suedes damp dynamics so there’s not really any winning.

f**k this headphone. It’s an insult to what makes the original orthodynamics so lovely.

 

Amazing. Thank you @Ishcabible . I hope you can get a refund.

Have you heard the Final Audio orthos? I wonder if you could easily padroll / tune for better sound.

No HP/YH-1 in your photo. You prefer the other models pictured then I guess.

YH5000SE gave me HD800 vibes ever since I saw the enclosure. Just looks like too much distance for that little ortho driver.

 

I’ve heard both the D8000 Pro and non-Pro and I don’t think I hear much of a familial resemblance as those elevate 4-5k more from memory. I really, really didn’t agree with the non-Pro though so would actually prefer these Yamahas.

I’m actually looking for a cheap HP1 now for the write up I’m going to do for these! I modded a pair and sold it for way too cheap because I never used it. It’s my favorite of the Yamahas and feel silly I bothered to sell it when it’s such a nice reference for what someone can get under $100. I’ve only kept the YH100 and HP/YH2 since they came from your amazing bundle a while ago and eventually have modding plans for them.

 

It's so refreshing to see, once again, at SBAF, someone that doesn't try to justify buying very expensive, very bad, pieces of gear. You are just telling how it is and it was a good read.

Thanks for this @Ishcabible, you are the real MVP right now.

 

Looking at the FR and @Ishcabible 's impressions: more rear damping required. That could whack the bass peak and the bass distortion and (in conjunction with thinner pads, as reported) could return some upper mids; and with a bit of venting around the edges, the 1-2k peak might be flattened too. But with too much damping, treble might get too much.

So yep - looks like we have yet another YH modding candidate

(Please note I am NOT seriously suggesting that anybody should have to do heavy modding after spending $5000).

 

Unfortunately, I don’t think anything other than a front volume seal will function well. I don’t have particularly long hair but unless I tuck the pads under my hair, the diaphragm hits the front grill at a more consistent rate. Whatever AFDS-like implementation they used for the YH-5000SE doesn’t really seem to be working.

 

Sad to read the impressions, the headphone looks so good and the tech used has so much potential...shame they couldn't implement it well, like Final did.

At least it looks great tho.

 

If someone (@Ishcabible ?) had some measurements for fitment of the driver, I bet it would be trivial to make a 3D printed flat baffle, no-front-flow (or adjustable vent?), fairly featureless enclosure for them. Then just slap your choice of damping on the back. I've been curious of this driver and the D8k driver for a while. I could make and send shells likely in a few weeks time for further experimentation. Some others here probably have the tools to do the same. Of course, if anything goes wrong, that's a huge loss of value. But... for science...

 

Where would the rear damping go? The design is largely like the Borealis where the driver is exposed, except the plaques seem to act as reflectors. There are visible screws but looking at the exploded diagrams of this driver, those screws seem to be what’s holding the driver together so undoing those might be destructive.

Unless you mean to scrap the enclosure and make a different one, which would make sense, but oof, $5000 pair of drivers that might not even sound good in a different housing

 

I'm confident each driver costs no more than $20. I get what you're saying though.

 

It's funny that this design ignores basically everything known about orthodynamic acoustics and yet they promised so much with it... and it wound up sounding just like you would imagine an ortho would sound with that design. hahaha. uhhhh maybe they should have read the first couple pages of the orthodynamic thread on head-fi before making a $3,500 ortho?

I was excited at the possibility of defying everything we know about ortho acoustics. But this is just a joke.

edit: sorry about the ethics violations I couldn’t help myself.

 

@Ishcabible is taking "f**k you money" in the literal sense. I love it.

Thanks for sharing. I'm glad I decided to give the Atrium a second chance (but in a harder wood density this time) over going with the Yamaha.

It sucks because I'm a lover of vintage high-end Japanese gear -- I think my profile pic speaks to that.

 

Dude you bought a $5000 headphone that you hate? What will you do with it? I'm genuinely curious.....

 

This one, thankfully, was listed on Head-Fi for $2750. I’ve wanted to hear it with my own system because I hate the ADI-2 and at that price, I’m placing a safe bet that someone else will pay that when the time comes to sell due to the magic of bullshit positive reviews posted by other people.

I was told I beat a few other people I can contact to sell this to when I want to get rid of it. Though, if anyone here is interested for that price for some reason, I can give them first dibs when I get it back from touring with a couple of friends that have lent me a bunch of gear. But I don’t recommend it.

 

There was some suggestion in 2018 (originally by Tyll Hertsens, if I remember correctly) that Sennheiser intentionally increased second-order distortion in the HD800S with respect to the HD800, or at least managed the distortion to a way that second-order distortion was increased but distortion at higher-orders was decreased with each order, through the fourth order. See https://www.stereophile.com/content...tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response and purr1n's post of 2018-01-22 at https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/hd800-and-hd800s-distortion-analysis.5670/.

 

Tried these a few days ago at e-earphone Akihabara. They were connected to RME's ADI-2 DAC straight up, so bear in mind these weren't running at their "best", but I feel like I've heard enough to confirm some things already said about the headphone.

Starting with the positives, it's comfortable as hell. Many have mentioned similarities with the HD800, and at least on basis of comfort, they are quite similar. Big cups and light weight construction really make for a nice feeling on the head. In terms of the sound, I find that it doesn't really exhibit that planar "plasticky" character, and shares some similarities with the Final D8000 Pro drivers.



The negatives are... quite a lot, and given the price of the headphone, they are something to be considered. Given that this was a planar, I was expecting a linear bass response, but it almost seems like the sub-bass was non-existent. There was also a grittiness or dirtiness to the lower registers, almost like an artificial addition of film grain, that was distracting to the overall cohesion. Mids were very recessed, and made for a weird presentation wherein instruments were substantially nearer to you, while the vocals were way back in the mix. I didn't find the highs to be irritating, but the sharpened note edges of pianos and strings made for a weird contrast with the muddy bass. Dynamics and slam were alright, definitely better than Susvara's but behind something like a Caldera. Headstage was wide, maybe close to HD800 levels, but the whack tonal balance really made me not care about it.

I would consider the Yamahas to be specialists. Maybe ok for orchestral or classical tracks, but for the price they're asking for, I feel that this SHOULD be an all-rounder. My definition of a "flagship" headphone means it should be good or at least competent with every genre, and this just doesn't cut it. There's better choices out there. Too bad, but I was really looking forward to these when it was first announced, and the actual thing turned out to be a wet noodle.