Yggdrasil A2 Measurements - Deconstructing ASR / Amir's Hack Job

Discussion in 'Source Measurements' started by purr1n, Jun 7, 2018.

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  1. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I am pretty sure Amir is not NwAvGuy. But then again, I'm not sure I am not NwAvGuy.

    Speculating about Amir's intentions is difficult. However...

    Schiit differentiates it's DAC portfolio by providing multi-bit DACs most of which have been phased out of the SOC market. I personally prefer the delta-sigma architecture for audio range applications. But it is pointless to argue that a multi-bit solution will not work. They has been used in the past and they worked well.

    Schiit is also relatively aggressive in putting their multi-bit DAC solutions above delta-sigma solutions (including their own). This is not necessarily something that is written all over their website. But we all know how Mike colorfully feels. And that is fine. We all have our preferences.

    What this does (going against the trend and being opinionated about it) is bring light to your product, but it also brings criticism. Specially if one puts down the rest of the industry for using delta-sigma DACs.

    I bet most folks in the industry don't give a shit. If the SOC guys did, they would have done something about it.

    However, an attention hungry reviewer might use this as an opportunity to go 20/20 or 60-minute ape shit and "expose" to the world the evilness of Schiit for swimming loudly against the current. Enter Amir (and NwAvGuy).

    On top of that, it is my understanding that Amir has a very hard time acknowledging he made a mistake and course correct (Amir-bits is IMO a perfect example), add to it attacks on his ego, and you got yourself yet another anti-Schiit jihad dude, which ironically increases Schiit's brand exposure. And life is good.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  2. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Your question is a good one. You may see some time estimates for high quality measurement work here. There is no way multiple DACs can be run through a suite of tests, with multiple source inputs (USB, spdif, etc) and multiple destinations (Bal, unbal) in a few hours and achieve quality results. Only a few measurements are possible in that time frame, and opportunity for mistakes or unintentional unfair comparisons is extremely high.
     
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  3. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Please close this thread* soon and pull out the Yggdrasil A2 measurements, giving amir way too much free rent good or bad. He's building a forum and any sort of traffic is a plus for the guy, some may be putting way too much thought into analyzing him. Its fun to haze a bit... but this is sooo a rehash. (am I being a partypooper? nah - lol)

    *OK OK in bit ;D
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  4. huynhhungvnr

    huynhhungvnr Rando

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    Amir's hatred against Schiit begin when his son Bifrost catching noise from computer activity, specifically in Windows Media Player.

    Maybe he hate Schiit because their gear revealed all his work in Microsoft was absolute SHITE?!
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Didn't Jude provide unbalanced measurements? Or did I read something incorrectly?
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  6. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Nope, you didn't misread ... the unbalanced graphs are right there too.

    Attention to detail doesn't seem to be his thing.
     
  7. huynhhungvnr

    huynhhungvnr Rando

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  8. murray

    murray Friend

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    Didn’t nwavguy use a Dscope, whereas amir’s weapon is the Audio Precision set.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    He's obfuscating now. Someone on that forum did bring up a good point on how much deviation from linear should be used in determining the ENOB in the linearity test. However, Amir is sidestepping the big gotchas: the FR and especially the distortion plots. If Jude didn't calibrate his AP555 for linearity tests, then Jude's linearity results might have even been better if he did. Finally, lack of time and preparation is no excuse for crappy test results. I don't buy the "I only had 8 hours to measure 8 DACs". Just find the time to do it properly or don't do them at all. These tests carried at -140db to -150db are super senstitve.

    Amir's been caught. He's really stretching. Watch for all the smoke and mirrors now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  10. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    That’s diet conspiracy theorizing for ASR. In one of the Schiit threads over there, several ASR posters were speculating that Schiit is an elaborate prank by Jason and Mike to get people to buy what the Schiit guys know are crappy products by making them look nice. (Why their prank involved making products with pricey AD5791 chips, rather than just putting Topping-level stuff in nicer boxes, was never explained.)
     
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  11. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    It's sort of funny since Schiit actually does the opposite, put great products in cheap cases.
     
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  12. L'Orfeo

    L'Orfeo MoatsArt the Second

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    I wonder if Amir spends any time actually listening to music. Too many people in this hobby forget the purpose of the stuff they talk about. A half-baked analogy would be that they are too busy admiring or criticising the wrapping paper to actually enjoy the gift inside.

    Become a true armchair audiophile Amir: Sit down and listen to some tunes.
     
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  13. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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  14. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I doubt he listens much at all.

    Are all of his “true believers” people who think the DAC built into their computer is as good as any external DAC?
     
  15. sfoclt

    sfoclt Friend

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    That's what I don't understand. Why do they bother following the equipment side of the hobby at all? Just go to Best Buy and buy anything.
     
  16. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    No, that was the original hydrogenaudio.io crowd.

    Amir is the leader of a crowd that believes that measurements tell all and the best measuring gear is the best gear period.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  17. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    FTFY
     
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  18. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Here is the dScope analog loopback linearity (out of the box, no bullshit corrections), using connectors and external wires like in real world measurements:
    20180608 dScope analog loopback linearity.png
    Made several runs and observed the -140 dBFS value vary ± 0.5 dB.

    According to Amir's criteria this would make the dScope a superior analyzer to the APx555. Look how the linearity deviation from 0 dB doesn't appear until -125 dBFS and is -0.5 dB at greatest deviation, no corrections necessary.

    Now how many of you really believe the dScope is a superior analyzer to the APx555?

    Audio Precision, Prism Sound, Rohde & Schwarz, etc. all have very experienced design engineers. Their respective analyzers are all capable of making accurate measurements. When configured similarly and properly the results will be in close agreement for the same device measured.

    *edited* for grammar and clarity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    But you are off by 0.1db at -125dbFS. Only 21 ENOABs (Effective Number of Amir-Bits) for you sir!
     
  20. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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