Modi Multibit: Multibit for the masses.

Yes. I didn't it was fair to compare usb modibit to cd transport spdif to modibit.
True, but I think people are better off investing in better everything else before going down the interface road. @zerodeefex said it best in the USB nervosa thread.

Use spdif if you can but spending more than the cost of the dac on an interface.. I can't recommend that.

 

I don't think any of the current ASUS cards have transformer isolated S/PDIF outputs. I'm pretty sure they don't have dedicated sample-rate clocks either.

From memory, things like E-MU 1010e or 1212e or M-Audio 2496 had both proper sample rate clocks and properly isolated S/PDIF outputs. Some of them required special cables (e.g. a 9-pin D-Sub to COAX cable) as they supported more inputs/outputs than there was room for on the standard PCI(e) card backplane. Don't know about current availability (which might have implications for driver availability), but they'd fulfill the "inexpensive" and "properly implemented" criteria.

Also, you're probably better off using "audio interface" rather than "sound card" as part of your search criteria, as that's how this sort of thing is usually sold. This will probably bias things higher up the price spectrum, getting into RME and Lynx products, among others.

 

Interesting. A quick search shows the 1212 can actually be had on Ebay in gently used fashion for between $100 and $150 which would certainly sit a lot easier for folks on a Modi Multibit type budget than would a Lynx or RME type product. That is very good information @Torq

Edit - Looks like the E-Mu 0404 also has a transformer coupled SPDIF output and advertises an ultra low jitter clock for that output and is even less expensive than the 1010 and 1212. Specs here: http://www.creative.com/emu/products/product.aspx?category=505&pid=20022

 

It was a photo, not a screenshot.

The coax jack has more pins than usual soldered (5pins instead of 2) but with multilayer PCBs, can't really trace it to see if the 3 smaller pins are actually doing anything.

 

There's no visible transformer on the top of the board. Looks like the board is sitting flat, so there's not one underneath. Even if there was a transformer, a) the extra "pins" are likely just for mounting stability (extremely common with PCB-mount sockets) and b) you don't need extra pins on the socket to connect to a transformer.

 

It was just mounted very differently from the 2 other RCAs to give me pause.

All that's underneath is some Omron relays and resistors.

 

Damn!

 

To prevent future problems from lemming cargo cult behavior, I'm going clarify something for the newbs from Reddit/people who just found head-fi reading the source and converter chat in this thread. If your USB actually works (it might work so try it!) and doesn't have tons of glare/treble/noise issues from massive jitter and electrical noise DO NOT BUY THESE INTERFACES FOR THE Modi Multibit.

Notice that I said FROM MASSIVE USB JITTER AND ELECTRICAL NOISE IN YOUR COMPUTER. I know some of you fools out there are using STOCK HD 800, AKGs, Beyerdynamics, Audio-Technicas, and random biodynamic Fostex cans to listen to MP3s of anime soundtracks and bedroom EDM/rap made with clipped snare samples, limiters, and massive amounts of distortion. If that is the case:

1. BUY BETTER HEADPHONES OR SPEAKERS
2. LISTEN TO SOMETHING NOT ANIME/VIDEOGAME SOUNDTRACKS OR SOULJA BOY
3. USE LOSSLESS FILES OVER DIRECT TRANSFER PROTOCOLS LIKE ASIO.
4. GET AN AMP THAT ACTUALLY SOUNDS VAGUELY HIGH-FIDELITY. NOTHING CHINESE.
5. BUY A BETTER DAC

DO THESE BEFORE EVEN CONSIDERING BUYING ANYTHING THAT COSTS MORE THAN THE Modi Multibit TO LISTEN TO ANIME SOUNDTRACKS ON THE Modi Multibit. THEN TURN OFF THE ANIME SOUNDTRACKS, TAKE A SHOWER, GET ON TINDER, AND START SWIPING RIGHT.

 

Cheap guitar plugged directly into a Focusrite digitally reamped with pirated plug-ins into a pirated copy of Protools or Cubase. Drums are EZdrummer samples with cymbals and snare sometimes real and if so clipped to hell. You guys know this is what happens. These dudes don't even play drum pads like the one-armed Def Leppard dude; everything is cut and pasted to a timeline. In mixing, compress every individual track like Led Zeppelin but x 1000, in mastering compress everything some more. Convert down to Redbook, publish to iTunes, Spotify, and Bandcamp. Done.

 

Interesting article about that sort of thing:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2...try-becks-morning-phase-as-a-hi-res-download/

 

ESI juli@ has a transformer coupled output iirc and comes in a pci express version these days.

 

Good thing we can listen to them on MQA now...

 

So much this. Just because something's not mastered for the mass market doesn't mean it's decent. Most modern indie music is designed to either be played live to drunk people who don't know any better or regurgitated by a $20 cassette player that some dude salvaged out of his parents' attic while waiting for his ironic moustache to grow out.

This is not to say there is not good music to be found in these sorts of places.There are times that I do actually want to listen to shoegaze that's been recorded by a laptop mic input, but those are the times that I'm glad Senn made HD650s comfortable as well as good-sounding.

 

Shouldn't USB to SPDIF converters be inherently bad because their chain of work starts from USB and thus is flawed from the beginning?

 

I would only note that jitter doesn't seem to be a factor, on the USB side, of USB Async connections. My understanding is that in these cases the packets, once they get to the USB receiver, are resent farther using the DAC's clocks*. This leaves electrical noise from the computer as the explanatory factor for poor USB performance (this plus the electrical noise from the USB receiver itself).

* Of course the DAC's clocks may be suboptimal thus themselves generating jitter, but then it has little to do with the computer itself.

 

Bingo, give this man a prize- nailed it. Having mechanically good hearing is an advantage, but learning to listen is the big deal here. A lot of perception is incredibly complex psycho-acoustic stuff. I know people who can hear a grasshopper ten metres away that I can't easily pick out, but who can't really differentiate between the sound of my Jotunheim or the tubiest tube amp on my desk.

Learning to listen, to "latch on" to the differences (I think I stole that from @Hands maybe) is how you tell the difference. It's a very mixed blessing. "Be careful what you wish for" applies. You'll hear just how much many things suck, and it will drive you a little mad. On the upside, it will give you the tools to recognise the bottlenecks in your own chain and make solid improvements over time.

(I don't miss doing blind listening tests for AES-related codec trials, though, god damn, ignorance is bliss. If I never hear another bagpipe again, it'll be too soon.)

No, not really. There are two issues that make USB audio suck balls. The first is electrical interference down the USB bus, mostly down the USB VBUS line- that is addressed by galvanic isolation in the converter. The second is that USB audio is asynchronous, streams into a small buffer and then gains a "proper" sample clock inside the USB receiver. Most USB receivers are bad, even on expensive devices. A good USB D2D converter would use a much higher quality clock to clock out this received data. A decent converter would also have a well-made transmitter too.

The only problem is that most really good converters like that cost more than the Modi Multibit, sometimes quite a lot more. That makes it pretty poor value. The Modi Multibit can sound loads better than it does over USB, but it will only scale so far. Our old friend "diminishing returns" kicks in quite quickly.

 

thank you for the excellent response!

 

I also found the Esi Juli@ in that price range and seems to be pretty inexpensive second hand. Better driver support than the EMU it seems. Could be a good alternative to the more expensive interfaces. I will be trying to find one of those to replace my Xonar ST. Do you have any experience with those?