New Schiit Vali 2 Discussion Thread

Seriously considering this amp for my T90s. But I read a review on head fi which was mostly positive but contained something that gave me pause:

..."the music would start to blur whenever the music became even slightly complex."

This is with the stock tube. To be fair, he was comparing this to much more expensive amps, which he said the Vali 2 held its own against. But I love the clarity of my T90s and instrument separation is very good on them.

Can anyone chime in about this? I want the Vali 2 but don't want to lose out with blurred details.

 

I never found the Vali 2 to "blur" anything. It's not going to give you Super HD BBQWTF resolution, but it always sounded pretty clear to me. Certainly more so than anything else I've ever listened to in its price range.

 

I haven't heard the blurred detail comment about the vali either. Paired well with hd800. Compared to similar amps I thought details and soundstage were highlights. Didn't have much uumph or slam, bass lacked a but, but its a tiny ass hybred tube amp with a chubby. Liked it better than Lyr 2, where Lyr lacked detail and soundstange, but had slam and bass. Don't worry too much about tube, look in thread for decent recommendations, buy one or two to try out and you'll enjoy.

 

LOL that was currawong's review (I think he was using the Yggdrasil too). I never noticed any blurring with my Vali either, I always found it to be highly resolving and would scale well with DAC upgrades. And yes, it does indeed hold well up against the great kilobuck tube amps.

 

Great info guys thanks!

 

Pairs nicely with my DT-990 Pro's over here. Stock tube is alright. Definitely not blurry. A bit underwhelming on all accounts, but not offensively bad at anything. The imaging/separation really isn't spectacular, but it's respectable. I didn't feel it was lacking in detail, even with complex passages. Coming up from a shitty fiio e12 and even the significantly better M2U, it was a revelation. I didn't know what my beyers were capable of until I had the Vali 2 feeding them.

They seem to have a few different 6BZ7's, so there may be variations depending on which you get (lotsa people get GE's, while I have a Canadian one.) Some people really hate the stock tube. I think they chose a solid one. It's a $10 tube, so you're not paying much for it. Rolling also doesn't have to put you out much if you decide to go that route, but I don't think it is necessary.

I was impressed with the amp even with the stock tube. The Vali 2 is a pretty clean-sounding amp all on it's own... ...and it's a natural, satisfying clean, not that glarey, Magni 2 Uber clean.

That's more the topology than the tube, ime. I've rolled a few and there are limits to how much a tube can alter the Vali 2's performance. A few seem to emphasize some of the Vali 2's inherent strengths, while some slightly change the presentation, but that's really all that seems to happen. It's like 85% there stock. And it's 85% of an amp with a lot of potential/scalability for being so small and inexpensive.

I mean, what are you pairing the T90's with right now?

I currently have a Phillips PCC88 in there... ...it's one of the cheaper NOS tubes you can get, but if there's one I'd recommend, it would be that. Worth the $40 imo. The clarity, detail, and imaging definitely improved - especially up in the highs. Still pretty natural tonality (well... ...as natural as you can get with DT-990's lol,) but noticeably more resolving. Bit more oomph and shimmer to it - more texture to the bass. Soundstage went even further out. There's a perception of more microdetail that isn't there with the stock tube. Seems to darken the background.

It basically brought that last little bit of life to the sound in every way. I can't go back to stock (which is hard for me to believe.) It's exciting to listen to and it doesn't wear me down at high volumes. Made an amp I already liked that much better.

Might pair nicely with your Beyers as well. Something to consider if you get it and find yourself a little underwhelmed.

Plenty of other tubes will work well. I think most any inexpensive NOS with decent impressions in this thread will take you far enough to be satisfied with it. I say give it a shot. Take advantage of Schiit's 15-day trial period. But I caution you... ...if you don't like it, DON'T start rolling tubes! Save your money and get something else.

 

Awesome info thanks.

I once had the DT880, and paired with the Magni2/Modi2 it was WAY too bright. It really made me hate Beyers. The cans fared much better on my more neutral Denon receiver but still found them unbearably sterile. My T90s with the Denon are wonderful but I am starting to hear the limits of ss, so I am curious about tubes. Your post has me excited about the Vali 2!

 

Haha yeah, it's definitely glarey. I found it to be pretty exhausting. The lower output impedance doesn't really suit 250ohm beyers, either. That probably takes some warmth out.

I think it's worth mentioning that I have the updated Modi 2 Uber with the 4490 chip in it, which supposedly doesn't have as much grain as the regular Modi 2, which has the older 4396. The Uber has some other nice features that help it out too. I can't verify the difference for sure as I haven't heard the Modi 2, but people who have seem to think it makes a significant difference. Might be part of why I don't have brightness problems... ...but then, I never thought the DT-990 pros were glaringly bright... ...just emphasized highs, which I like. T90's are probably brighter.

Ahh, well AV recievers are kind of a mixed bag. Some have pretty good headphone jacks, while others sort of have it as a small afterthought.

My thinking is that a dedicated amp should do better than your average AVR at powering nice headphones to their potential. I don't know shit about receivers, though. Just seems like if you're going to invest in something like the T90's, getting a dedicated amp that pairs well with them makes sense... ...if you're keeping them, anyway.

It might not be an SS vs. tubes thing at all. It might just be that the out on your receiver is lacking. Could be a number of things happening there. A decent solid state amp might work just as well. The synergy is probably more important than whether you go tube or SS, unless we're talking about really fancy-shmance tube amps. The Asgard is an SS amp that comes to mind, here...

That said, I don't think the Vali 2 is a good tube amp. It's just a generally good amp. Different from the Magni 2 in many ways, but not like most tube amps. Just a little smoother and cleaner than full SS amps in its class. Maybe a touch warmer. Better suited to higher-impedance cans. There are also many cheap tubes you can roll in for a warmer, more laid-back sound. Detail might take a hit, though. That's been my experience, though I found warmer tubes weren't needed in the end.

Hey now! I'm not accepting tickets to board the hype train! But schiit will give you a refund if you don't like it. I think the price of shipping is worth trying it, that's all. I think you'll at least like it more than the Magni 2!

 

I actually wouldn't call the T90 bright. The are fairly warm, they just have the crazy treble peak. My DT880s were bright.

My Denon receiver actually sounded better than the Asgard 2 to my ears. It has a very good HP out. I just meant that as my chain gets more resolving (added better cables, Uptone Regen and tweaked my computer) I am noticing the music is getting a bit sterile because of the nature of ss.

 

Gotcha. Makes sense you wouldn't like the Asgard 2 then. The Vali 2 is definitely more resolving than the Asgard 2. I thought of the Asgard because it's a warm SS amp. I don't think the Vali 2 is sterile, though. I'd put it closer to neutral. I think it's a nice, natural-sounding amp with surprising detail. How the resolution compares to your Denon is anyone's guess. Good luck finding someone who can compare the two Whether or not it scales past my DT-990's, I also couldn't tell you. People seem to like it with their HD6x0's, though.

 

All, I am looking for some help.

I am a n00b to the audio arena, but do have a pair of Westone UM2s that have been treating me well for nearly 7 years. I am looking to take a step up for home listening and have ordered a set of HD650s, a Schiit Modi 2 Uber, and a Schiit Valhalla 2.

I am somewhat concerned about my selection of the Valhalla 2 as it is really only intended for high impedance use. Is the Vali 2 different in this regard? Does the Vali 2 function well with lower impedance headphones that I might purchase in the future or even with my UM2s (32 Ohm)?

In the end I am just trying to make the best decision that will give me the opportunity to try multiple headphones without having to purchase a bunch of extra hardware.

Thanks!

 

Helps to read the product pages of the things you buy.

 

Wow, that was super helpful and polite I feel welcomed to the community already, this being my first post and all, thanks for that..

I have read the product page but also have read that the pairing with low impedance devices doesn't sound very good. I was trying to determine if the Vali 2 shared this trait. There is a difference between what something can do and what it is good at.

Do you actually have experience with both of these devices in the use case that I was asking about?

 

Chill, doggie. It sure looked like you ran out and bought a nice HD 650 system and didn't know that it could also handle low-impedance phones.

If you want a more do-all setup, the All-Purpose Advice Thread might be a good place to ask. And cancel that Valhalla order if you're still on the fence.

 

Buy first, ask questions later. 60% of the time, it works every time.

 

Thanks....

I did do the research, I'm just second guessing getting an amp that is so specific to a single set of headphones is all. I guess I could order the Vali 2 and evaluate it to see what I think, probably the best path.

 

I'm not sure which would sound better, but... based on specs, I would think the Vali 2 would be worse for low impedance high sensitivity IEMs than Valhalla 2. The Vali 2 dumps an incredible amount of power at low impedance, waaay more than Valhalla 2 (at low impedance), and waaaay more than those IEMs need. I would think it would be ridiculously loud and hard to manage.

Damping factor with the Valhalla 2 (low gain output impedance is 3.5 ohms) for your IEMs (27 ohms) is 27 / 3.5 = 7.7. People will often quote a damping factor of ~8 as being the minimum for proper bass control, so I would say the Valhalla 2 is fine on that front with your IEMs.

So as long as there is no audible noise from the amp, in the iems, it should be nice.

It's also ideal for the hd650s as you know, moreso than Vali 2.

I agree with the above, give it a listen. You can return it for a restocking fee I believe. Besides, you may like optimizing your system for the hd650s.

 

The Vali 2 is certainly powerful. Using it with the DT-770 250 ohm (96dB/mW), I can't go past 11pm on low gain without most music becoming uncomfortable to my ears. I usually have it at 9pm for most music, although for some classical pieces I'll turn it up to 10 or 11.(People have told me that I prefer to listen to music at relatively quiet levels though). Listening to the HE-400i (35 ohm, 93 dB) is usually just a tad lower than the DT-770.

Specs from Schiit product page:

Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 1300mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1000mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 650mW RMS per channel

Simply due to curiosity from the last couple posts, I plugged in a bunch of budget IEMs just to see what they sound like. Meelec (now MEE Audio) M9 old version, Meelec CX21, Sony XBA-1, Sony MDREX10LP.

Known specs:
M9: 16 ohms
CX21: 16 ohms, 101dB
XBA-1: 24 ohms at 1kHz, 108 dB
MDREX10LP: 16 ohms, 100 dB

No hissing or any noise on any of these when turned up to 3 am on low gain. I can't imagine anyone doing such a thing for actual listening on sensitive IEMs, I just wanted to test how silent it is. For actual listening, I had it on low gain between 7:15 and 8 depending on the type of music and on the IEM. Any lower than 7 and you have one side louder than the other. The pot starts around 6:30, for reference.

For me, the Vali 2 is fine to pair with IEMs. But so is the Valhalla, looking at its specs, so I don't think there's any reason for you to get the Vali 2 specifically for IEMs unless you just want to play around with it and hear how it sounds.

 

Vali 1 should be here today by mail. I was THIS close to getting a used Vali 2 on hype-fi, but the seller was an unreasonable dick. He wouldn't budge on five measley dollars but that was enough to make it a no go for my tight budget. The guy wanted $140 plus shipping, stock tube. The used pricing on head-case is always frustrating for someone on a budget and a Vali 1 was $75 shipping included, so it was a cheap tube option to get my feet wet.