New Schiit Vali 2 Discussion Thread

Ahh, interesting. So there are hidden dangers at meets! It sounds like you have to watch out for traps, things like EC amps and Yggdrasils. Plus, there are audio people there.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious."

 

A bit of an unrelated question but semi-on topic. I now have the Vali being fed by Bifrost 4490 into my Beyer T90s.

Should I get a Gungnir Multibit or an HD800? What's going to give me the better upgrade for the time being? Keep in mind the T90 is about 80-90% of the performance of the T1, which isn't far from the HD800.

 

Well my mind is set on the HD800. I've heard it and loved it. I want absolute clarity and resolution, depth, imaging. The 800 has it all.

The Gungnir Multibit is just the next level up from Beefroast, so it's an obvious want.

I will eventually get both but I will have one alot sooner than the other.

 

Sounds like you're already set on the HD800. Remember that transducer upgrades will trump any DAC upgrades, so the HD800 should be next on your list. It'll pair well with the Vali and Bifrost (along with any of the popular HD800 mods) until you can save for the Gungnir Multibit.

LOL though, it won't long before you start looking around for a new kilobuck amp to replace your Vali.

 

LOL thanks chaps. I was definitely leaning more toward the 800 since it is my dream can.

 

I didn't like my HD 800 until I did the SBAF mods. Now I use it primarily and it's amazing. But my music mostly sucks, daft punk ram and some chesky reference recordings and classical are the only stuff that sounds good so far. The quality of many recorded music is so bad.

 

I need to do some more listening before passing final judgement, but so far I am not really liking Vali for classical. For some reason everything feels a bit (very slightly) closed in and unengaging, even though the T90s have a pretty good size soundstage. They are not closed in sounding like the HD600 can be. It is almost like things sound up close but far away at the same time (talking about Vali/T90/Bifrost), like those weird perspective shift images.

Previous classical or movie scores I've thoroughly enjoyed previously are making me shrug in disinterest. I am trying to remain positive and open minded because I am so used to solid state, especially my Denon. The weird things, there will be moments in classical recordings that will sound extremely euphonic and engaging, but for only a few seconds. Then it sounds boring again. Like certain instruments and combinations will suddenly come up and its like "wow". Then the the usual instruments will come back and it will be completely different.

I am baffled as to why this is happening. Technically the music is fine. Violins are pleasing. There is nice separation. You can hear deep into the recording. Great resolution and tonality. But there is something missing that is not giving me the pleasure I had before. The music is just kind of...there.

This isn't a problem with pop, jazz, acoustic. But I will say different albums can sound wildly different in terms of engagement. Its hard to articulate. It is entirely possible I am just not used to the sound signature yet. Perhaps this is a quality of tubes that I can't properly articulate.

Perhaps Vali 2 fixes this?

 

This may have likely been a software issue. I made an adjustment and it is sounding much better now!

 

I find my engagement usually has more to do with the amount of sleep I got the night before, position of the planets, etc. Sometimes you're just not in the mood for music.

 

Yeah, I definitely like Vali1 with all of my classical. If you can, use WASAPI mode on Windows or the equivalent kernel direct mode on Mac. This will have the advantage of bypassing any OS sound effects and such, and is direct unadulterated digital to the DAC.

Edit: Apologies if I am repeating stuff you already know

 

Although it sounds better, it is still a mixed bag of sorts.

1. Badly recorded music souds dreadful. I mean in the sense of piercing highs. My Denon solid state did a pretty good job of taming that. And I realize the Vali is merely presenting an honest account of what is on the recording. Nevertheless, some of my music is now unlistenable. Its a shame because they are good albums from an artisti sense. Even well recorded stuff can sometimes be hot in the treble and my T90s absolutely ruthlessly serve it on a platter, this didn't happen so much with the Denon. The Vali is too cheap for me to build headphones around it, but I want the HD800 pairing... Which has a treble peak but it is not nearly as bad as the T90.

2. Even well recorded music is a bit temperamental and inconsistent. I am totally coming from a place of being used to nothing but solid state... Years and years, so I am biased...keep that in mind. I find the tube sound to be very pleasing in one sense. It gives instruments a sparkle and magic quality. But it seems an element of solid realism is removed, and that's something I desire, mostly because I'm so used to it. With the Vali anyway, the sound is very much like a well spun illusion, full of magic and sparkle, but lacking a kind of tactile quality that is hard to put into words. Again, I AM biased. But ultimately are tubes what I want with my music? I am not sure anymore.

Granted, this is one tube amp, but supposedly a very good one, competing with more expensive models, so its not unreasonable to make a judgement about tubes in general based on this one amp. I cant afford to buy a bunch of tube amps and see if one changes my mind. The hobby is too expensive.

I am still doing alot of listening to various genres so am not passing final judgement or anything, just making notes on my impressions so far.

Question for anyone used to tube amps... Have you always used tubes? If not, when did you make the jump from solid state and are tubes your preferred choice and why?

Solid state seems to get a bad rap. I wonder if adding a tube preamp to a solid state amp would combinr the best of both worlds...

 

Also apologies for posting about the Vali 1 in the Vali 2 thread but there isn't a thread for it here it seems. I'd post in the one on HF but have sworn off the place (except the classifieds).

I decided to do some direct comparisons with my solid state Denon instead of going off memory. The biggest differences were the Denon had a much bigger soundstage, more slam/bass and was much clearer sounding, as well as offering a larger scale of presentation, everything feels bigger (which is not a tubes vs ss thing, the Schiit Magni 2 had the same relative "smallness") And individual instrument timbre was much better, as well as imaging and directionality The Vali seems to give everything a (very pleasing) haze of tubeness that is not necessarily my cup of tea. I am not dismissing tubes but I am recognizing these qualities of tubes vs solid state, which is very informative for my future audio journey.

For now the Vali is going in the drawer as my Denon is just too good in almost all areas. BUT I would love to hear the Vali 2. As it is supposed to be better. I hope this wasn't a downer, it is not meant as such.

 

@ColtMrFire

I don't think the vali 1 is a good introduction to tube sound maybe try building the bottlehead crack speedball, I think it will match better with the T90 imo.

 

I hear very good things about the crack/speedball, especially with Senns and Beyers. But I have no desire to build one. I suppose finding a used one online is the ticket.

 

Both Valis are hybrids! Tube gain stage, A/B SS output. It's funny you mention that "best of both worlds" scenario. That's the Vali 2 in a nutshell. The only thing it's really missing is that SS bass impact. I wouldn't call it bass-anemic, though. It's not that dreadful "phantom bass." It's actual bass that can rattle your ears a little bit.

The way you describe the Vali sounds very different from how I would describe the Vali 2. It sounds very clear, resolving and clean. I was a little confused at first because I expected the tube to give it that hazey and chewy sort of wetness, but it's actually pretty snappy, though it can be smooth when it needs to be. The highs are where that aspect really comes out. Nothing is really lost to it, they sound almost anti-aliased - crisp and defined, but without those jagged edges. It manages to retain all of that detail without sounding grainy or digital. Chunky, substantial midrange. Very true-to-life tonality. I would say it is very neutral and realistic - almost realer than real, if that makes sense. Things definitely sound enhanced and yet, the amp knows when to get out of the way. It has sort of a natural grace.

Just based on what I've heard about the Vali, I'd say it's a bright-eyed kid out to prove itself, while the Vali 2 carries itself with the class of a seasoned veteran. Is that fair? Does that even make sense?

Would you say the Vali is a little on the warmish side? I can tell you that the Vali 2 sure isn't. It's also not a laid-back amp - it doesn't really break-up. The word for it is "refined."

Not so much sparkle, but lots of air... ...sort of that intangible upper-treble reach that gives you a greater sense of space and scale. You can't exactly pick it out, but you KNOW it's there, like a sixth sense. Soundstage goes pretty far out, but nothing is smeared. It's far from crowded. Just really dense and layered. I like to close my eyes and peel them back. And when I do, I'm astounded at all of the shit that's actually going on. Transients/attack/fundamentals sit closer to your face, while the upper harmonics and "breath" break away and expand outwards. Everything across the frequency range sort of resides in its own regions. I find I can hone in on individual instruments (or even just parts of their sound) and it's just like "boom... ...there it is!"