Schiit Jotunheim impressions

Are you sure about that? You're describing a frequency response that's basically a flat line, right?

If so, I really doubt that anyone would describe a headphone with that FR as neutral sounding. Even headphones that most people describe as neutral, bright, or lean (HD800/HD800S) have a FR curve where the "treble region is lower than the mid and bass region" (your description of dark).

 

I think Alan's base neutral headphone that he is referring to the ultimate neutral headphone, the PMx2, which according to graphs are pretty much a flat line. I think that may differ from Philip's base of what neutral means.

Maybe I'm off, but I think this is all a misunderstanding and a matter of experience and background. I'm a card carrying warmfag - I don't see the HD650 as dark. I find lots of cans to be too bright or too dry. Many others brought up on a steady diet of brighter drier cans would say HD650 is dark.

Relating this all back to the Jot - I think one of the reasons HD650 pairs well is that the Jot leans toward detailed, neutral, and the imfamous impossible wire with gain. HD650 is just warm enough to kill any perceived glare. Balancing the scales of headphone truth.

Anyway Jot loaner currently in a USPS truck - will be able to confirm or deny all this hyperbole coming out of my mouth tomorrow!

 

There's also a slight "forward" sound to the Jot, that helps with the HD650's one "real" weakness, and that's staging. We all know that "veil" was never a real thing, just a product of poor use and bad PR...

 

Sorry to be such a stickler about this, but the SBAF reference measurements of the PMx2 are not pretty much a flat line: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...pmx2-redux-and-quick-impressions.60/#post-713 They're downward-sloping like a lot of other headphones considered neutral.

Of course I agree that different people are going to perceive different FRs as neutral, but where I disagree is this idea of "flat line FR" == "neutral". I know this is OT for the thread, but don't want what I consider misinformation to go without a response.

(Josh: go team #warmfag! I'm a member too )

 

Charts aside, I've listened to more than one HD650 and relative to many headphones, they are dark. I'm not saying they are dark on some absolute scale, but to me they are darker then most, and I categorize them as dark. Are there darker headphones? Yes. That doesn't mean the HD650 does fall on the dark side of nuetrual

It also doesn't mean the modding it or using the right combo of equipment can change the sound signature.

I really look forward to !CanJam to hear all these not dark HD650s

 

The notorious three blob stage that's reported by some, disputed by others. I've heard it both ways and think dac / amp makes or breaks this comparison. Ask someone who owns a ZDS about poor stage and they will laugh at ya. But on most other more everyday amps hd650's stage is a real weakness.

For the 99th time in a row, Philip is correct and I'm proved to be a nincompoop. Frequency response is close-ish to flat line (think ruler flat), but not level line. No doubt they are downward sloping and perceived neutral.

Any way, I fell into one of the most classic blunders, the most famous, never get involved in a frequency responce war with a @philipmorgan .

I think most can agree that HD650 falls on dark side of neutral, its just how far down the dark road does it wander. Its funny - I've had this same argument with @Rynsin - you're arguments are so similar it is almost like you share DNA.

 

Who is this @Rynsin that you speak of? He sounds brilliant!
Actually, my wife and I are off to Boston next week to visit the boy.

I agree there are some similarities, but I disagree with your assessment (we all hear differently). To me the 650 lacks sparkle and is overly smooth. The PMx2 is extremely balanced.

Someone above said "warm" to describe the stock 650. Warm is probably better than dark.

 

I don't think Jotun + HD650 isn't dark as well - it's warm & bit veiled. My definition of dark is bassy plus laid back presentation. Sure, it is smooth and a bit needs sparkle, but the forwardness helps alot. To me, old Bose headphones, old Beats, AQ nighthawk are example of dark sound.

 

Don't buy ZMF anything...

 

cskippy, no removal of the spider? I do agree with geo though, that these headphones are a hair slow in transient response, overdamped and midbassy. Compared to the 400i there is a whoolish sound over the mids/treble .. like a veil I suppose. The 400i's once EQ'd up a few DB in the lower region take the cake vs the HD650 in just about every aspect imo. I doubt I'll mod the 650 in an attempt to improve it, as I'd rather not close off potential buyers. In the end, the 400i bests this headphone on my ears by a good amount.

 

As a "transportable" rig, I'm finding that Jodie whips the Mojo pretty soundly with my UM Martian. Blatantly superior technicalities. The latter might be going up for sale in the near future, I think.

 

You consider Jodie transportable? I consider my Ifi Micro borderline lol.

 

That's coz you have bigger than average holes. Makes you very sensitive to treble.

You need tri-flang ear-tips

 

Heh, there's a reason I put the word in quotes. I can move it around with minimal fuss, so, subjectively, yes. Keep the box handy.

That said, the Mojo is obviously more transportable.

 

Yeah I used my box to ship off my old hardware, gah.. I doubt I'll upgrade from the Jot though for a really, really long time.

 

Nicely said. I'm glad it's not just me- I get used to whatever I have been listening to most of late; before long, that sounds "right" to me. I can flip-flop between "bright" and "Dark" headphones if I'm not careful!

(..and yes, the Jot does seem pretty uncoloured compared to many amps. I think the reason people call it "bright" is that it's unsparing.)

To be honest, given the cost of other headphones that people are using (and dismantling) around here, chancing your arm on a part of HD650, which don't cost much and are easy to re-sell, is hardly the gamble of a lifetime.

 

I presume using the Jot balanced DAC card?

 

One thing I am wondering is whether we'll be able to get cards retro-fitted any time soon. I'd sort of like the DAC card in mine (for transportability)..

(Actually, if you're around London, and considering buying a Jot, and don't want the DAC, you could buy one with, and trade it with me- I'd pay the price difference )