The Bob Dylan Literature Appreciation Thread

Nobel prizes are a joke like the Academy Awards. They gave a Nobel Peace Prize to Yasser f'ing Arafat who ravaged his own people by starting multiple unwinnable wars (Black September in Jordan, The LEBANESE CIVIL WAR that lasted FIFTEEN YEARS, the two intifadas one after he won the prize) that killed hundreds of thousand of people and ran two countries to the ground. They gave it to the president of North Vietnam. The Colombian people told their president to go f**k himself after coming to an amnesty deal with FARC.

Sweden refuses to recognize it's own greatest musical exports: ABBA, ENTOMBED, DISMEMBER, and AT THE GATES. How about they give ABBA and DISMEMBER a million bucks each for "Dancing Queen" and uh "Skin Her Alive"? Let Alf Svensson be the most tattooed member of the Swedish Academy. Sometimes these bands didn't just use a Swedish to English dictionary, they used a thesaurus too! ABBA displayed an elementary grasp of history and DISMEMBER butchered biblical quotes. They're not really beneath Dylan in terms of output of actually listenable recorded material either.

 

The award for creator of Idiot Wind goes, once again, to Bob Dylan.

 

That's the funny thing about it: if they had done this in the late sixties, it would have been bold and genre bending, thought provoking even. Doing it now borders on is pandering.

 

Borders on?

 

Great thread...and I'm a huge Dylan fan since a teen. I go for long stretches without listening to him but when I return, I'm always amazed how much he speaks to me. Echoing some thoughts here... awards are always suspect... remember when Rocky beat out Network and Taxi Driver? As far as what Dylan is (artist and brand) the Scorsese doc No Direction Him tells the story very well.
I wish I read more literature and watched more 'serious' cinema, but I don't have that kind of patience anymore - I need to be entertained - which is why I like Dylan. For a few minutes I am distracted/ consoled and without much effort, I feel like I understand existence a little better.

 

It's a shame. Just because he was a mediocre musician and singer in addition to being a mediocre poet, his poetry was elevated compared to many better poets with no musical or signing ability (I use the last descriptor loosely).

 

hello,

goodness, where to start? (please note: this may be a North American centric post, its where i live.)

both Pulitzer and Nobel (and to an extent Booker) are somewhat locked into their era. that is, a winner of any of these can become irrelevant over time. (case in point Margaret Mitchell won the Pulitzer in 1937.)

which means, do not fret if the list of Nobel winners is unfamiliar to you, some of the honorees may have written crap. just as some of the winners of the Pulitzer for Fiction are crap.

Mr. Zimmerman is not worthy of this prize for literature. if he is, than Lennon/McCartney should have won years ago, say sometime in the late 1970's.

here we go:

Hemingway, in 1954, cited for The Old Man and the Sea, published 11 years after For Whom the Bell Tolls, 19 years after Death in the Afternoon, and a whopping quarter of a century after The Sun Also Rises, all of which are vastly superior to this late career novella. i suppose it does have the advantage of being short and assignable to HS kids. (also note the Pulitzer comment above.) then again, those same HS kids could be assigned the stories in In Our Time (the 1925 edition) and get to read "Big Two-Hearted River" which is a much, much better story about fishing than The Old Man and the Sea.

1962, Steinbeck. really? really? 23 years after The Grapes of Wrath and just about nothing of substance afterward (by the by, i adore Cannery Row and Sweet Thursday but they are comfort food not great literature.)

no Nobel for Brother George (Luis Borges)? why? no novels, just short stories? his politics?

ignorance of JJ? A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is too modern for its time? Ulysses is too dense? had the Academy already placated the Irish with Yeats?

no consideration of Italo Calvino? politics (again)? too difficult, too whimsical?

The Doris had the most spot on reaction. i mourned the fact that this brilliant, compelling and disturbing writer did not have a chance to be recognized for her work: feminist, communist, outspoken, daring... (forgive me) Doris was one righteous bitch. then, she outlived those labels and the Academy had no choice but to finally cave. "Lessing was the eleventh woman and the oldest person ever to receive the Nobel Prize in Literature."

in other words: those pricks in Stockholm waited for Doris to die so they wouldn't have to recognize her, she didn't, and they had to.

she did not present this:

https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/2007/lessing-lecture_en.html

tl:dr: Bob Dylan has no right to win the Nobel in Literature, but if you review the Prize, so did a lot of other Laureates.

 

I feel so illiterate..................serves me right for visiting forums rather than reading real stuff..........

but wait @DrForBin may have awakened my literary nerve...........naw just made me more educated about writers.

I am not a big reader of books but Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress was great.

 

That was a good morning read. Thank you.

 

Never mind the prize, it comes with cash! A substantial amount.

And...

it takes a letter in my local [Indian] newspaper to point out that Dylan is not the first songwriter to be given the Nobel prize for literature: Rabindranath Tagore [Indian] was. Way back in 1913.

But hey, he had long hair and a beard, so I guess it must have Marvey's hippies at work again!

 

Tagore wrote Gitanjali, a very nice poem and he did write the Indian National Anthem (among other things)...

 

I understand and respect all the arguments and counter arguments brought forward regarding whether Dylan deserves such an honour or not. Bob Dylan in my view was the musician who wrote lyrics that stood as poetry irrespective of the music. Whilst the poetic content was not as avande guarde for his time, once taken within the context of his music, I believe he achieved the perfect embodiment of poetry within folk and rock for his generation. There are so many examples, especially within his most prolific 60s period as well as several of his other recordings especially from the 90s onwards.

I can feel his rage on the 'Masters of War'...
"And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead."

I love his rendition of 'Visions of Johanna'...
"Inside the museums, Infinity goes up on trial
Voices echo this is what salvation must be like after a while
But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues
You can tell by the way she smiles
See the primitive wallflower frieze
When the jelly-faced women all sneeze
Hear the one with the mustache say, "Jeeze
I can't find my knees."
Oh, jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule
But these visions of Johanna, they make it all seem so cruel."

Here's an interesting video on the lyrics of "All along the Watchtower"...



'It's Alright Ma (I am only Bleeding')' has so many twists and turns, so many play with words...
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying.
....
You loose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand without nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks
They really found you."

Reading the lyrics for Mr Tambourine Man brings such joy and wander ...
"Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind
Down the foggy ruins of time
Far past the frozen leaves
The haunted frightened trees
Out to the windy bench
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky
With one hand waving free
Silhouetted by the sea
Circled by the circus sands
With all memory and fate
Driven deep beneath the waves
Let me forget about today until tomorrow"

Does he deserve the Nobel Prize for literature? I am certainly not a literature expert so I can't answer this question.
Am I pleased that he received this recognition? I have to say yes.

Whilst understanding all the points brought out by many regarding this issue, I would have to say that in my opinion he, as an artist, should receive it. Dylan was so original for his time, his lyrics are still impactful when read within our time and his influence on his own generation and beyond is boundless. If his lyrics are taken out of context from his music, he was not as avande guarde as his contemporary writers. However within his own music and interpretation, his lyrics achieve a life of their own.

Dylan's use and non-use of words and syntax, the way he plays with diction, the allegories, metaphors and hidden meanings and the circular verses with no end, highlight his artistic literary qualities. Will this prize really change anything? Whilst a prize does not change the way I feel about Dylan's art, such a recognition may well serve as impetus to the artists, the singer song-writers, of our time, to further push the boundaries of their artistic endevours.

 

@Muse Wanderer, beautifully written. It's Alright Ma is a favorite, a crash course in understanding society.

 

That said, Dylan Thomas, from whom Robert Zimmerman pinched a name, was never awarded a Nobel for literature. Unfortunate.

 

@Kattefjaes , I have to agree with your sentiment about the Nobel Prize. I love Bob Dylan, but this feels wrong especially after reading some of the earlier posts. Perhaps the Swedes are trying to atone for Max Martin/ Dr. Luke. Toxic is a near perfect pop song, but between them and iheart radio, popular music is at such a low point..

 

I have a different point of view on this.

Great artists build on the achievements of other past Giants.

Recognition of one artist is a surrogate to the recognition of all the artists that influenced him and enabled him to create his artistic works.

Bob Dylan was influenced by so many poets, musicians and singer songwriters such as the legendary Woodie Guthrie, Robert Johnson, Dylan Thomas, Hank Williams and Buddy Holly. Awarding Bob Dylan for his achievements is a recognition of the achievement of the Greats that motivated and shaped him throughout his life.

Furthermore like all great artists, Bob Dylan did not copy but built up on the work of others, creating art that is truly original, influential and substantive in its own right.

No artist is born in a vacuum and art always flows from artist to artist like an interminable river. We only have to take a dip in it to savour and understand it.