System Synergy - Special Sound

262
@atomicbob

spwath said: ↑
"how does it compare to the same priced modi multibit?"

I am going to defer the answer to that question to @Torq who has graciously agreed to give the Ross Martin PCM1794A DAC an evaluation when his schedule permits. He is much better at describing the nuanced differences than I. My general criteria is very simple. Can I listen for hours without getting annoyed? Does the auditory experience more feel realistic or more like the cartoon equivalent? Nuances beyond those coarse evaluations are above my auditory discrimination abilities.

Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
atomicbob, Mar 27, 2017

 

263
@atomicbob

zonto said: ↑
"@atomicbob, do you have an opinion on using a digital cable terminated with RCA on one end (Canare RCAP from Blue Jeans) and BNC 75ohm on the other end? Need to use S/PDIF out of my source, but toyed with this idea running into Yggdrasil."

I am not much of a cable fiddler. I tend to use lab grade components as they work both for digital connections and for measurements, though one must always pay attention to 50 vs. 75 ohm in the lab, especially when above the audio spectrum.

atomicbob, Mar 27, 2017

 

264
@lm4der

atomicbob said: ↑
"Similar to @songmic love of OOYH, I find it difficult to listen without my IVS. If there is interest in replicating my IVS VST stack I have a PDF prepared as a rough guide."

Yeah, I am interested in this. Can you post the pdf?
lm4der, Mar 27, 2017

 

265
@atomicbob

Atomicbob's Immersion Virtualization System - experimental guide - this is a starting point

ATTACHED FILES:
· 20170218 Immersion Virtualizer Parameters.pdf
File size:
748 KB
Views:
327

atomicbob, Mar 27, 2017

 

266
@Torq

atomicbob said: ↑
"I am going to defer the answer to that question to @Torq who has graciously agreed to give the Ross Martin PCM1794A DAC an evaluation when his schedule permits. He is much better at describing the nuanced differences than I. My general criteria is very simple. Can I listen for hours without getting annoyed? Does the auditory experience more feel realistic or more like the cartoon equivalent? Nuances beyond those coarse evaluations are above my auditory discrimination abilities."

We can set this up anytime now.

While we're not quite ready to host any gatherings as we finalize furniture and decor, my office and listening rigs are setup now and I can get back to auditioning gear.

So, anytime you want to let it out of your hands we can setup a time to get together and go from there. I'll shoot you a PM in a bit on that!
Torq, Mar 27, 2017

 

267
@Azteca

atomicbob said: ↑
"Atomicbob's Immersion Virtualization System - experimental guide - this is a starting point"

Thank you for sharing. I used to use a lot of Waves plugs in my mixing. I have dabbled with crossfeed in Jriver and 112dB's Redline Monitor (which seems to leave EQ intact, just narrows stereo image and lets you change angles and such). Sonarworks has been an invaluable tool in mixing and mastering. I don't think I'd use NX for work but you do have me curious about its potential for leisure playback. I am also relieved to see I am not the only one who finds +2 bass -2 treble the ideal tilt for enjoyable playback on a HD6x0. Flat is great for checking mix problems, much like an NS-10, but generally is going to fatigue.

Azteca, Mar 27, 2017

 

268
@atomicbob

Azteca said: ↑
"Thank you for sharing. I used to use a lot of Waves plugs in my mixing. I have dabbled with crossfeed in Jriver and 112dB's Redline Monitor (which seems to leave EQ intact, just narrows stereo image and lets you change angles and such). Sonarworks has been an invaluable tool in mixing and mastering. I don't think I'd use NX for work but you do have me curious about its potential for leisure playback. I am also relieved to see I am not the only one who finds +2 bass -2 treble the ideal tilt for enjoyable playback on a HD6x0. Flat is great for checking mix problems, much like an NS-10, but generally is going to fatigue."

I'd rather use monitors in an acoustically treated space than Waves NX, but in certain location recording situations NX is a godsend. For recreational listening it is wonderful to my ears. Turn off the head tracker. That is really novel, high impressum initially, but gets old quick for recreational use. Focus instead on getting the head modeling set for your head, then adjusting room ambience and speaker position to suit your preferences. I agree about the tilt and listening fatigue. Last thing I want for recreational use. For recording check mix your comment is spot on. Production and Recreation are two different objectives.

atomicbob, Mar 27, 2017

 

269
@Changeling

atomicbob said: ↑
"The 7DJ8 reduced an already low hum and residual noise of the EH 6CG7 to yet lower levels. This improved the contrast of the audible blackground. I think the Immersion Virtualization System, IVS for short, (Waves NX + Sonarworks VSTs) has the greater effect in my system.

Similar to @songmic love of OOYH, I find it difficult to listen without my IVS. If there is interest in replicating my IVS VST stack I have a PDF prepared as a rough guide. A media player that can host VST is required. @Changeling has replicated this system and I believe to have found useful."

The Ultron 7DJ8 (or PCC88) are 7v versions of the 6DJ8 (ECC88). They'll be "under powered" in the Vali2 I guess and I'm not sure if that's one of the reasons for the lower hum...
Anyway, Ultron was a company that rebranded all sorts of tubes from the big wigs. There's hints to find from construction but it's mostly hit/miss. I paid about $8 each for 8 new in box tubes of two different makes so I couldn't care less whether they were great or not so great. They all sound fantastic, and for the price they're a steal. I'm not going to compare. Too scary

I've had the opportunity to learn about the IVS and has run it fully setup in my two systems for a couple of weeks. For me, it's been revelatory. I've struggled with hard panned jazz recordings for a long time, and while Sonarworks mono monitoring helped out it had the drawback that it killed some of these recordings so that they sounded flat and dull. I couldn't hear any difference with Sonarworks alone so I decided to not purchase the license. Expensive for just a mono mixdown I thought.

@atomicbob to the rescue!
He recommended Waves NX to be combined with Sonarworks and introduced me to the IVS. The rest is history. It's all in the PDF for you to try.

But I will say this:
1. The IVS is my preferred way of listening with Lynx AES16, Yggdrasil, Mjolnir2 and HD800 as well as with ModiMB, Vali2 and HD650.
2. I find it very hard to go back to not using the IVS.
3. The IVS will live through potential hardware upgrades and provide benefit up through the chain.
4. I do not feel the need for mono mixdown anymore.
5. Comparing the cost for the IVS to some of the stuff I've bought over the years is embarrassing if I consider what you get for your money.
6. IVS might not be for everyone. There's demo versions that will allow for a couple of weeks of testing FOC. How about that

Changeling, Mar 27, 2017

 

270
@Azteca

One question for @atomicbob : can I ask why mixed phase? I had gone with linear out of paranoia (and no desire to try to compare phase settings) but I know the latency is doubled. Is mixed transparent for you?

Azteca, Mar 27, 2017

 

271
@atomicbob

Azteca said: ↑
"One question for @atomicbob : can I ask why mixed phase? I had gone with linear out of paranoia (and no desire to try to compare phase settings) but I know the latency is doubled. Is mixed transparent for you?"

It was a balancing act given I am using a wet/dry mix of 75%. Nothing is hard and fast. Please experiment and report.

atomicbob, Mar 27, 2017

 

272
@Ash1412

@atomicbob @Changeling Are you running it on high or low gain? Looks like low gain based on the knob position you have in your pic. Which do you prefer? Garns said low gain adds more feedback to the system and makes the tube less noticeable.

Ash1412, Mar 27, 2017

 

273
@Changeling

Ash1412 said: ↑
"@atomicbob @Changeling Are you running it on high or low gain? Looks like low gain based on the knob position you have in your pic. Which do you prefer? Garns said low gain adds more feedback to the system and makes the tube less noticeable."

High gain for me. I haven't compared, I just left it on hi after a session with HD800...

Changeling, Mar 27, 2017

 

274
@Ash1412

Changeling said: ↑
"High gain for me. I haven't compared, I just left it on hi after a session with HD800..."

I like the way high gain sounds but I can barely get past 7 o'clock on most of my music, which I believe might lead to channel balance.

Ash1412, Mar 27, 2017

 

275
@Changeling

What headphones are you using? @Ash1412

Also with the IVS you have -6db headroom (as a starting point) to avoid clipping in the subsequent stages. That might be part of the reason for @atomicbob turning the volume up on Vali2...

Last edited: Mar 28, 2017

Changeling, Mar 28, 2017

 

276
@Ash1412

Changeling said: ↑
"What headphones are you using? @Ash1412

Also with the IVS you have -6db headroom (as a starting point) to avoid clipping in the subsequent stages. That might be part of the reason for @atomicbob turning the volume up on Vali2..."

HD 650 so even less sensitive than HD800. I think my listening volume (at about 7 to 9 o'clock on high gain) is quite normal, perhaps even slightly loud but maybe I'm just too conservative about volume

Ash1412, Mar 28, 2017

 

277
@atomicbob

Ash1412 said: ↑
"@atomicbob @Changeling Are you running it on high or low gain? Looks like low gain based on the knob position you have in your pic. Which do you prefer? Garns said low gain adds more feedback to the system and makes the tube less noticeable."

Low gain for me. I am very sensitive to even small amounts of residual hum which can be heard in my very low ambient environment of approx 30 dBC. Most listening environments will be at least 10 dB SPL higher than this such that residual any hum is likely to be masked. High gain elevates residual hum for any tube.

atomicbob, Mar 29, 2017

 

278
@k1arg

Thinking about the combination of the sub-sonic bass eq boost and sonarworks in the IVS, are people using the additional eq for 'no limits' sonarworks profiles, or only the limited ones? It seems that the extra eq with a limited sonarworks profile ends up being pretty similar to a no limits profile by itself. Or am I overlooking something?

k1arg, Apr 22, 2017

 

279
@Changeling

k1arg said: ↑
"Thinking about the combination of the sub-sonic bass eq boost and sonarworks in the IVS, are people using the additional eq for 'no limits' sonarworks profiles, or only the limited ones? It seems that the extra eq with a limited sonarworks profile ends up being pretty similar to a no limits profile by itself. Or am I overlooking something?"

I'm using the 'no limits' profile in Sonarworks with bass +2 and tilt -2.
Furthermore I use Dmgaudios Equick EQ for sub bass enhancement.
Works well, haven't compared with different profiles though

Changeling, Apr 22, 2017

 

280
johnjen

k1arg said: ↑
"Thinking about the combination of the sub-sonic bass eq boost and sonarworks in the IVS, are people using the additional eq for 'no limits' sonarworks profiles, or only the limited ones? It seems that the extra eq with a limited sonarworks profile ends up being pretty similar to a no limits profile by itself. Or am I overlooking something?"

The 'no limits' compensation curve has no added roll of from 35Hz down which makes the SSBB (SubSonic Bass Boost) blend with the response curve of the HP's and the Sonarworks curves all the more seamless.

When I was fussing with the SSBB curves both before and after the 'no limits' curves were available, the results were much less cumbersome (in terms of the dealing with the added roll off from 35Hz and lower) and 'better' with the 'no limits' curve.

Of course all of this is dependent upon your system's capabilities and SQ preferences.

JJ
johnjen, Apr 22, 2017

 

CANNOT FIND PAGE 15.

PAGE 16 of the O.G. thread: