Audio Science Review Review

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Aug 30, 2020.

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  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I look toward the past, and sure I've been a dick to a lot of people in the last ten years. This time around I actually have a deep conviction that I am finally doing the right thing. This is an immensely powerful feeling. So bring on the insults, the personal attacks, the groans!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  2. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    I just wish they would just provide counterpoints to what @purr1n is addressing. Seems like they won't (sadly I'm not too surprised on that part).

    Some of the comments from their thread is making me shake my head.

    pic 1.JPG
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  3. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Yes, I think you are right, and kindness never goes amiss. But you will continue to find any of my posts that mention that unmentionable man to be not kind, not even polite, but verging on foul-mouthed.

    It's not about measurements v ears; it's not about subjective v objective. All those big audio arguments are straw men fighting straw men.
    I'm not going there, but I'm not surprised. They will do that. And they will misrepresent what has been said here to fit the arguments that they want to make. They will not talk or discuss because they won't listen. This lack of listening is rather strange in people who are supposed to make a hobby of it!

    Measurements. Objectivity. So you'd think that maybe Mr A would be at home at hydrogenaud.io, the bastion of audio objectivity? Well... no. Because his objectivity is whatever suits him. Or, according to some of the Hydrogen people at the time, his commercial interests.
     
  4. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    I used to think that before, is very convenient to ignore and deflect topics in a discussion, specially if it is harmful to some juicy commercial interests. Amir does that from time to time...but his minions?
    That would require a certain degree of intelligence and awareness, and I don't see any sign of such qualities radiating from the typical ASR poster. In fact, they'll eat any kind of crap Amir feeds them. I see them more as some kind of malicious, mind controlled autists instead of a group of people casually having an argument.
     
  5. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    "JBL monitor amps are not "state of the art" but that is not terribly important" lmao

    Well, I believe they have serious flaws, but considering the price I wouldn't complain or redesign the circuit myself. But yeah. LoL. " It isn't super important how shitty the amps are." LoL.



    Btw, I regard JBL as a pro company that just offers products some are quite good, ime, so I am not here on high horse. I think JBL knows their stuff. These 305s are just extreme compromises that could still make you enjoy music - they aren't going to bother redesigning it for the time being.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  6. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

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    Their review based on measurements of the liquid platinum is laughable

    "Measures flat on frequency sweeps therefore must sound perfectly neutral, tube does nothing, will sound same as a JDS atom"

    From 30 seconds of listening it is obvious that LP while not hugely colored also does not sound like a neutral budget SS amp [in a good way]. Which goes to show their measurements-based conclusory methodology is not anywhere near capturing what the hardware subjectively sounds like.

    Although I feel all measurements are flawed as a conclusory tool due to being too primitive compared to how humans perceive audio - complementary information rather than info you can solely make a solid overall judgment from - the way ASR does them and makes conclusions is special brand of useless
     
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  7. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Review ideas for 2021. "It isn't super important how bad the drivers are"
     
  8. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    The budget market for amps may need years to recover from the damage dealt by those kids with their fancy .00000 numbers. Imagine how much R&D has been wasted to pursue those numbers instead of a better sound!.
     
  9. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

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    Companies will probably just engineer bad sounding headphones around the bad sounding gear.

    "THX AAA Headphones - guaranteed not to sound like a trash can on THX gear!*

    *THX AAA Headphones connect to PC via USB "
     
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  10. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I don't go there. It must be even weirder than I imagined! I guess they'll be having fun with your description of them. lol.
     
  11. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
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    How ASR perceives themselves:

    [​IMG]

    How others perceive ASR:

    [​IMG]

    ASR in actuality:

    [​IMG]


    How SBAF perceives themselves:

    [​IMG]

    How other perceive SBAF:

    [​IMG]

    SBAF in actuality:

    [​IMG]


    How Head-Fi perceives themselves:

    [​IMG]

    How others perceive Head-Fi:

    [​IMG]

    Head-Fi in actuality:

    [​IMG]

    (And a backup gif in case the shake weight circle jerk one above doesn't load)

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Haha, given my own mouth bears no little resemblance to a cesspool at the best of times (particularly after all this metal and plastic and rubber was installed— blech!), I say your potty-pleasantries are as good as anything I might dredge up out of this morass. I do recall you've known of Mr. Formerly-of-Microsoft for far longer than I have (I only learned about him through this forum, truth be told) so my store of good will likely isn't quite so depleted as yours.

    Say whatever you want so long as it's done with due respect and candor, IMO; being too reserved with opinion only leaves room for misunderstanding.

    True, since if it were really about measurements then both this forum and theirs should be getting along better, as well as Mr. MoreSINAD with the HydrogenAudio board (bit too dry for my tastes but a good place nonetheless). It's taking a lot of willpower to avoid losing my temper at people who conflate the forum's "measurements don't tell the whole story" ideology with "SBAF says magic exists", as that's evidently false.

    @Hands the last image shows up as a missing image and I have no idea if that's deliberate but I hope you keep it because it's hilarious. [​IMG]
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Mere deflection and does not address the glaring inconsistency: How is it possible that ASR heard amp distortion from the Jot with the HD650 and the volume cranked past 0200 (where the Jot with the HD650 is at its sweet spot with 110db SINAD per ASR measurements), but did not hear any distortion with the JBL woofer amp which achieves no better than 55db SINAD at best?

    Why did ASR ignore their own dogma and decide to go subjective for the very reasons why they have stated it's important to not go subjective - falling victim to the very downsides of going subjective?

    Same here, not on a high horse at all. There's a lot of engineering that went into these monitors in order for them to reach this level of performance for the price. From a common consumer point of view, cutting costs is viewed as a bad thing, but the JBL engineers cut costs in exactly the right areas and the right ways. Sure there are better monitors for more money. There are also worse monitors for more money, a lot more money. It's an extremely competitive space they are in.
     
  14. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Oh wow :oops:
     
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  15. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

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    Such a huge surprise a forum that makes people feel good about buying cheap junk is more popular than one that makes people desire gear they can't afford.
     
  16. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
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    Thank you. I one day hope to learn to internet.

    Thanks to your success I did a copy/pasta and hopefully fixed my post.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    So true!
     
  18. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    I hope you're right, but I think you're being over-optimistic.

    R.A. Belcher, Wireless World, May 1978:

    "It has long been recognised that total harmonic distortion measurements generally do not give a good indication of the subjective impairment due to non-linearity, and in 1950, in an effort to provide improved subjective agreement, Shorter(1) proposed that the measurement of distortion should be weighted to take more account of high order harmonics. In 1960 Wigan(2) proposed an improved weighting criterion to be applied to the harmonics of a 1kHz test signal. His subjective data..." etc.

    So despite people who've actually been listening having recognized for three-quarters of a century that not all distortion is equal, manufacturers, trade publications and consequently consumers have persisted in talking THD; and someone who set himself up in the late 2010s with a single distortion-plus-noise number as his main criterion of measured 'truth' still finds a large and willing audience. Unless manufacturers stop playing the stupid how-many-zeros-after-the-decimal THD+N game, I'm not optimistic there'll be a paradigm shift in consumer opinion. I think the best that can be hoped for is a small shift in the Overton window due to a (sadly) few around the edges who are prepared to listen, research, and think for themselves.

    This is not to say though that calling him out on shit like claiming to hear distortion of the amp while playing the headphones at >100 dB, being inconsistent in the application of his 'consistent' standards, etc., isn't worth doing. The more the audience can be shown he's not some sort of infallible or always 100% honest guru, the more they'll hopefully be open to other information.
     
  19. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    I guess that's why you might get a good PA system amp. Almost limitless power and decent SQ. I mean, high-end clubs and better live shows usually have at least decently good audio.

    Pro audio is no joke, but you need to know what to buy.
     
  20. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    I am actually more interested in PA, because of price. Get some amp, and some good drivers and probably DIY the speaker. Or just use PA amp for the lower part and get something for mid and highs.
     
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