Audio Science Review Review

What if all parties agree to delay the experiment until the covid-19 situation clears up enough to allow international travel? Then all can meet on neutral ground, set up the experiment with mutual observation in a way that everyone is satisfied (i.e., test shrinkwrapped gear together beforehand to make sure it has not been tampered with, etc.), and broadcast it. Seems like funding can be found to arrange this.

 

GoldenOne, keep up the good work in the pursuit of truth. I know facts can be thorny little buggars. Typical of many claiming to be experts to move the goal posts or otherwise obfuscate, when challenged. Spent good part of a 40 year technical career revealing facts to otherwise smart people. It was always an uphill battle to prove an outcome was based on incorrect requirements, design, analysis, or testing,

Be cautious challenging Amir. If you present overwhelming evidence he might make a "qualified" feeble admission of being wrong, but the ASR minions will try to paint you as the bad guy.

 

This is what worries me. With people like Amir and his minions, even when you 'win', you will lose. The rules will change, the goalposts will shift, the rug will be pulled.

Taking the moral high ground is the only exit.

 

Sorry GS, as soon as the possibility of losing face emerged he was out: the exercise was never going to happen. I agree with others that it seems like a tactic for escaping the roasting he was taking on MQA.

 

I’m really confused, why is this even necessary? Double blind listening tests have never been conducted between gear before?? Haven’t multiple members of this very site proven they can hear minute differences between components in an ABX environment? Slapping ASR’s name on a test doesn’t make it authoritative, and the objectivist assholes don’t get to claim the field when there’s ample evidence that humans with the proper training and environment can indeed hear differences between gear regardless of how inaudible their distortion measurements are. I don’t mind GoldenOne doing the test of course, always good to have more data, but I’m surprised to see people here act like THIS test is going to be the one that really convinces them one way or another.

Also Amir is an incredible asshole and this whole thing was an attempt to distract from how beaten up he’s gotten over defending fellow asshole Bob Stuart and his bullshit MQA. f**k them all.

 

I think it's actually b/c Amir (finally?) realizes this is all on SBAF by now and also on the radar of who knows how many other forums. Needs to duck out before he digs the hole any deeper. That and risk of losing ASR donations.


My own opinion - don't waste your time on this. Make a charity donation on your own if you feel compelled and go enjoy yourself or do something else more worthwhile in life. Who knows, maybe the weather is nice outside today.
However, if you want to make a video for the purposes of additional charity, your own entertainment, simply proving you aren't full of it, or some sort of "get back at ASR petty spite / how dare you imply that I'm incompetent / help dismantle ASR further purposes", then absolutely please proceed. I would be willing to provide what little feedback I can w/ regards to the "Design of Experiments" side of the testing (and I'm sure other more qualified individuals here would too).

 

@GoldenOne If I remember correctly you're in your last semester in college, focus on that and leave the cult alone.
There are several examples online on blind testing of audio gear including cables for the last decade or so. It didn't change anything, people will believe what they want to believe, let alone a cult following like what you have on ASR.

 

@GoldenOne Maybe it's time to move onto your promised HQPlayer and DAC anatomy videos...

Your work on those is likely to bring a lot of joy to a lot of us, which we will share and help raise the standard on all kinds of other discussions.

 

There is no winning with Amir; there is no game with Amir; no give and take, no conversation. In fact, maybe we should subject him to one of tests that determines if he is actually human. Say potato, Amir!

 

It does seem unlikely that anyone will change anyone else's mind on the basis of a video.

There is value in making a good test, though. Especially a reproducible test anyone can run. The difficulty of setting up a good test is why (double-)blind AB(X) testing is virtually never done (in audio). It would be a massive achievement to lower the barrier for an individual enthusiast to attempt the test.

One approach that comes to mind is, perhaps, a test kit that can ship out to people through a loaner program. (SBAF already has such a program!) The kit could include a DAC, a Magnius, and another "transparent" amp, a CD or flash drive with test FLACs, a multimeter to calibrate the output levels on both amps, maybe a script that can run with specific jukebox software, and detailed instructions.

A more sophisticated kit could include some custom hardware built by the DIYers in the audience to switch between the amps using a relay or something (I can probably help a bit here). A truly ambitious testing box could use a Raspberry Pi to run playback software and handle output switching. Make it fully open-source so anyone skeptical about the legitimacy of the test can build and run it. Hell, put every test result from a verified box on a blockchain, so some degree of trust can be maintained and the results tabulated to see how many people have the hearing to distinguish between electronics.

The real value of this shitstorm could be in the community coming up with a solid testing protocol.

Edit: Postscriptum: The ASR forum became popular in no small part because it published all kinds of tests very few people have the hardware to do. It ended up concentrating a lot of influence in one set of (highly questionable) hands. The right response is moar knowledge distributed more broadly.

 

Have to chime in again with a couple examples why not to engage with Amir or the minions.

1. Amir tested an economical DIY speaker over a year ago that received positive marks. That version contained good quality inexpensive crossover components. An upgraded version with high quality crossover components has been in Amir's hands for 8 months, not tested to date. There were many disparaging comments made about the high quality parts being "snake oil" adding nothing to the performance of the speaker. Amir has the perfect opportunity to compare the basic speaker to the upgraded speaker and prove the ASR mantra that anything but the cheapest capacitors, resistors, and inductors are "snake oil". Does anybody believe that Amir has not tested or listened to the upgraded version speaker in 8 months? Where is the review with the big - I told you parts is parts?

2. Have had a couple exchanges with some of Amir's most vocal and loyal supporters. When confronted with facts of science and physics they could not dispute, they responded with long posts about completely unrelated topics. Shot those down and they brought out the often used "troll" accusation.

There are a few on ASR that design and build audio equipment as a hobby or business (seldom willingly revealed). At least those few have actual experience. The majority of what is passed off as settled "science" is based on my cousin knows a guy that has a friend that knows somebody that read a research paper 25 years ago.

Walk away from Amir and ASR.

 

Please perform this experiment. After careful level matching, I'd be very curious about the outcome.

 

The youtuber Oluv actually did the whole AB/X using recorded files with different amps, some people were able to tell a difference and even name them correctly. He was rather flippant about them getting it correct , but the concept actually is somewhat viable I think, at least for seeing if you can tell a difference. I was able to tell a difference between the 4 files and name the one I had actually heard in person correctly (only actually heard 1 of the 4 before in person, the THX one). *As a fun side note, I incorrectly named the Iphone as being the topping DAC because it sounded better and I assumed the expensive DX7 would be the best sounding one, turns out the freaking Iphone dongle sounds better to me!!!!

I think Oluv stuck a HD800 on some MINI DSP ears to record the various files if I remember correctly, so the sounds were actually coming through headphones.

The issue is that even when people get it correct, they will still say its random chance asif its recorded correctly the waveforms will look nearly identical, which is what everyone said with the Oluv one.

Obviously doing it in person with the real dac is far more effective and a much better indicator of rather someone can actually tell a difference.

There is also the issue of bad faith acting, if Amir wanted to be an asshole he might just give you identical files, so that if you say you hear a difference he will say SEE YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT, THEY ARE THE SAME GOTCHA BITCH!

 

It is really a waste of time to interact with a cesspool of intellectual dishonesty, arrogant cult behavior and self serving profiteering in the guise of "we are the good guys".

DIY ABX home evaluations

Someone willing to put in the time to carefully re-record evaluation sounds through two or more devices to be ABX discriminated.

1) acquire suitable royalty free source material with spectral content allowing DUT (device under test) discrimination from a vendor such as: https://www.premiumbeat.com/

2) use impeccable DAC and ADC to re-record with carefully level matched DUT:


3) make A and B device re-recordings available to all and have participants use ABX listening evaluation software such as:
https://lacinato.com/cm/software/othersoft/abx

 

I'd donate cash to both Golden One's ABX charity test and to getting a SBAF approved ABX loaner tour going.

Both of these are immensely interesting to me. Take my money.

 

I'm just wondering when all the Audioscientologists are going to get on their spaceship and leave the rest of us alone.

 

When the kool aid man busts through their walls