DACs need to be warmed up for a while. Fact or Fiction?

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by rayfalkner, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    The only explanation I can think of is the high precision oscillators used for re-clocking digital inputs for ultra low jitter clock signals being fed into the DAC need time to properly come up to speed and the circuitry needed to make sure the oscillator is performing correctly takes time to iteratively obtain exactly the right frequency required by the DAC.

    EDIT: That and the Phase Locked Loops that could be used in the DAC.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-locked_loop
     
  2. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    Could you also state the cold and warm temperatures when you post your results for the benefit of those of us living in the tropics? I sometimes wonder how cold the room temperature is in America when they do those AB tests, especially since the seasons and climate there are different.
     
  3. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Most of us keep our temps somewhere between 22-25 °C. If we can afford fancy DACs, we can afford air conditioning.
     
  4. rayfalkner

    rayfalkner Not to be confused with Roy Fokker - Friend

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    24 - 25 Celsius is my preferred temp too with AC on. On hot days (32 Celsius and up) I'll just open most doors and windows at my house, turn on the good old fan in my room, and saves myself some electricity bills that way-
    -though I never don my headphone and turn on my DAC / amp unless I'm having a dedicated listening session and even then I only did that on night time, think about it as some kind of self rewarding after finishing a day of work and chores.
     
  5. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    I'm used to 30-32 Celsius here in Singapore as well, and rarely see the need for air-conditioning. So I guess if it seems like the DACs have an optimal operating temperature less than 40 I might not have to leave them on or warm them up much? Unless there is something about constantly leaving the current running through them as well.
     
  6. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I guess someone should get a temperature probe inside the Yggdrasil to see what the air temp is after its warmed up four a couple days.
     
  7. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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    rayfalkner, thank you for asking this question. Really relevant discussion for me as a Singaporean: the temperatures here vary between 27-32 deg Celsius, but the power supply is stable enough for me to consider an MB DAC. Guess that puts me in a weird in between situation.
    Would love to hear more about the ideal temp for MB DACs.
     
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  8. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    It's weird how computers and audio gear basically have the opposite temperature requirements. Computers are better when cooled down with some hobbiest using liquid nitrogen during over clocking. Audio gear however needs to run warm in order to function properly.
     
  9. rayfalkner

    rayfalkner Not to be confused with Roy Fokker - Friend

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    Water-based controlled heating system for DAC? Wow man I think if you managed to come up with a desktop sized working prototype, that could be the next big thing in home audio market, and you could be under the spotlight on Times mag.

    ... And one day a single leak caused a droplet of water to drip into one of those top grands DAC, the owner then send the device back to manufacturer for repair, and then the tech dept of the manufacturer realizes that this is caused by the owner consciously, intentionally, deliberately put a water-based system in close contact within the DAC. They'll probably then think of something like "This owner is either a genius or at the lower end of the IQ spectrum, but hey he got a lot of money so who cares, let's milk him more anyway".
     
  10. firev1

    firev1 Friend

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    Used to do some DAC measurements and I really observed something consistent between cold and warm states, this is the old GO IEM. Distortion and noise are higher before warm up is achieved. Atomicbobs measurements also show this.

    FRM-Filter.gif jitter.gif

    However I must argue that its not warm that must be achieved in audio systems but rather the optimum operating temperature, DIYA has this ADC project going on where at the stable temperature without heatsinking, the ADC distortion actually increases, so the current efforts are trying to get the ADC at a lower stable temperature.

    Thus it can be assumed that DACs have a sweet spot with temps as well, not too warm or cool.
     
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  11. rayfalkner

    rayfalkner Not to be confused with Roy Fokker - Friend

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    Agreed.
    it would be so much better if the manufacturer actually put the recommended operating temp instead of "go run my DAC for couple of days first please and don't turn it off ever again if you could help it". :p
     
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  12. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Brilliant idea. \/
     
  13. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Nah man, better to go with an oil submersion. Much easier to maintain a stable temperature with a large fluid mass.
     
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  14. rayfalkner

    rayfalkner Not to be confused with Roy Fokker - Friend

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    Ah I'm just trying to put a light joke too, sorry if it got lost in translation. I know about the water cooling in extreme overclocking scene, but it never came to me the idea to use a similar approach to desktop audio system. I'm just imagining if you somehow expand that out-of-nowhere idea into fruition, that would probably be nominated as one of the most radical breakthrough in the audiophile industry :D

    "take a look at my crazy ass $15k DAC + $20k amp + $28k martian-origin-planar-wave-magic-quantum-array-crystal-oxide-infused fluid heat control system! Beat me, peasant!"
     
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  15. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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  16. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    I'd suppose that highly efficient cooling systems are more of a necessity in computers where components can hit temperatures of 100 Celsius or more if left alone, whereas audio components have not yet generated such temperatures (I think).

    +1
     
  17. firev1

    firev1 Friend

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    Whuuut I don't really think we need temp specs from manufacturers, what we are really interested in is the die temps after all. I rather stick with leaving my dac on for a couple of days. At most maybe some solid headsinking with a thermoelectric control will be sufficient.
     
  18. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Then you've never touched anything by Nelson Pass or a vacuum tube. :p
     
  19. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    True that. Though funny how I forgot that vacuum tubes are somewhat like good old tungsten lightbulbs.
     
  20. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    Precision measurement devices need hours to meet their spec.
    How much are todays top shelf dacs different?
     

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