Distortion Surface: old measurement, new approach

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by atomicbob, Sep 4, 2023.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    There will be some inherent roughness because this is the nature of distortion. It's not always stable and while the AP has various settings that determine what value to "catch", the noisy aspect of distortion cannot be totally eliminated.

    The above were arrived by taking measurements at 31 points from 20 to 20kHz. Only up to 10kHz is plotted because 2nd harmonic goes past 20kHz after a 10kHz fundamental. But given the lessons learned on the MIL/MIB DAC, perhaps would be wise to still plot distortion to 20kHz.

    That last thought aside, we won't see any narrow peaks/valleys in the measurements above. When it comes to FR where we do see narrow peaks and valleys, we get around this by applying smoothing 1/9, 1/24, etc.

    As far as roughness of the distortion surface, who knows? We don't have enough data yet. I can say that with headphone measurements, narrow peaks in the distortion surface probably isn't a good thing and may likely corroborate irregularities in the linear distortion (frequency response) measurements. "Distortion" distortion often refers to non-linear distortion. It's non-linear because we can't correct it like FR, which is linear.
     
  2. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Mjolnir 3 distortion surfaces

    THD+N
    01 Mjolnir3 NFB off THD+N surface 300R annotated - small.png

    D2
    Mjolnir3 NFB off D2 surface+contour 300R annotated.png

    D3
    Mjolnir3 NFB off D3 surface+contour 300R annotated.png

    4+HD+N
    Mjolnir3 NFB off 4+HD+N surface+contour 300R annotated.png

    Noise is the dominant contributor to distortion below 0 dBu.
    Above 0 dBu D3 is the dominant contributor to distortion.
    Note the extremely flat surface across the spectrum.
    Very impressive! Kudos to @schiit
     
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  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Here are the same SW51 results, but distortion is in ratio (not absolute). Same settings per above, but the other channel. For amps, I prefer the ratio.

    H2
    upload_2023-11-18_12-53-49.png

    H3
    upload_2023-11-18_12-59-55.png

    H4-10
    upload_2023-11-18_13-0-50.png
     
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  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    @Lyander, this is your request for Piety

    Nitsch Piety
    High Gain
    300-ohm load
    90kHz Bandwidth
    AP "Cheat" Mode On
    Channel 1

    Second Harmonic Distortion Product Ratio
    upload_2023-11-18_13-30-24.png

    Third Harmonic Distortion Product Ratio
    upload_2023-11-18_13-33-50.png

    H4 to H10 Distortion Product Ratio
    upload_2023-11-18_13-35-48.png
     
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  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Here is THD+N (or -SINAD) for the above. Like @atomicbob's measurement of the MJ3 above, noise is really the limiting factor. And even then, taking things into context, no one is going to hear this noise.

    upload_2023-11-18_14-2-22.png
     
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  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Oh, I figured if anyone wants to play with this / update it to superbestaudiofriends, SBAF, whatever, put flames, nuclear mushroom cloud, etc.

    piratehead6.gif

    The Jolly Roger represents independent thought. The banner the skeleton is breaking is a tessellated old Head-Fi logo. It represented hype train back then, but today means blinding following "authorities" as "truth" (e.g., Harmon consumer preference research target, which by the way, has changed ever few years, etc.), simplistic thought (black and white approach, numbers for the sake of numbers, litmus tests based on singular SINAD at output levels that would either permanently destroy hearing or kill a headphone after a period of time).

    The pyrate theme was chosen because Currawong (Head-Fi moderator back then) admonished me as to why I insisted on being a "pariah". I wasn't insulted. I was honored!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
  7. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    The notable features of both Piety and Mjolnir 3 are very flat distortion surfaces across the frequency spectrum with a smooth rise as level drops. This low level inaudible noise may be providing an ultimate dither on the signal.

    When I saw the logo used by @purr1n on the distortion surface plots I immediately thought of @rhythmdevils .
     
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  8. Armaegis

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    When summing from H4-H10, would there be any value to summing the evens and odds separately?
     
  9. Armaegis

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    Just wanted to share this here for people who are curious what distortion products do to a sine wave:
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/2c45...ied.xlsx?rlkey=w5g3wicizs4xibdgubg83iv7l&dl=0
    It's a spreadsheet I slapped together. This is super duper simplified obviously, but you can play around with the highlighted coefficients (how "strong" the harmonic is) and see how the waveform changes. I included some sample coefficients above the graph. Fundamental is 100. Harmonics are whatever you want it to be.

    edit: might be really weird or un-editable on a browser, you can go to the dropbox folder and download the excel spreadsheet here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d7a9pho6d71doan/AAAXJBpws7IjS4ln1WoKU0RMa?dl=0
    the file is called "harmonics simplified"
    i can toss a copy onto googledrive later if that makes it easier

    edit2: here it is on google docs if that's easier than excel: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ouid=102821999456903661246&rtpof=true&sd=true
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Probably not unless there is something noteworthy. I feel the base of H2, H3, H4-10 is already on the cusp of too much information. However, if there is something interesting, it may be worth to show it. The effort to produce the graphs is much higher than a quick look in instrumentation.
     
  11. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Last month I was asked to present on this topic to the AES PNW Section Saturday special subgroup. Here is the link to a video of that presentation. It is approximately 75 minutes long. Chief explanation is in the first 25 to 30 minutes.
     
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  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You are my hero! May singular "SINAD" be left to what it's supposed to be.
     
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  13. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I presented the results obtained by being curious. Science is filled with such occurrences. Though I have a particular audio analyzer @purr1n demonstrated that with determination, knowledge and skill other analyzers may be employed to achieve similar, remarkable exploration. Now why does a certain "science" site strongly resist such advances rather than embracing and continuing the journey of discovery?

    I'll leave you with this:
     

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