Distortion Surface: old measurement, new approach

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by atomicbob, Sep 4, 2023.

  1. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    According to Tyll's measurements, up to 200-300 in the bass:

    https://www.stereophile.com/images/ifmeasure/SennheiserHD595.pdf

    https://www.stereophile.com/images/ifmeasure/SennheiserHD598.pdf

    Tyll's Clear peak is a little lower than Bob's, probably because the measurements are on different 'heads' (different pressure-chamber effects on the driver resonance):

    https://www.stereophile.com/images/FocalClearsnA1BRQE000007.pdf
     
  2. Armaegis

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  3. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    The Clear is the highest ratio headphone I've seen (Tyll's measurement shows about 6x). A lot of multi-BA IEMs have pretty high ratios, and because their lows are commonly very low, their frequency response distortions are more extreme because of the way the voltage divider formula works with amp output impedance.
    I've snagged that from you before, it's very handy to have. The online version is friendlier to navigate though:

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/innerfidelity-headphone-measurements
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    HD560, which is in that family

    Sennheiser HD560S
    Impedance (and electrical phase)
    YEL = Free Air Impedance
    GRN = On Head Impedance
    [​IMG]

    Also, Grado...

    Grado RS2X
    Impedance and Electrical Phase
    GRN = on ear
    YEL = free air
    [​IMG]
     
  5. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    No, I don't have one of those in my lab collection. Fortunately it appears that others are able to provide the requested information.

    I should have noted that my measurements were free air.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Here's one for the JAR600.

    Note distortion percentage in the mids/highs, which is low on the JAR600, tends to rise as we go lower in volume level. This is because of the limited dynamic range of the microphone. THD in this case is percentage. The floor of the microphone just can't get any lower. The distortion in the lows does get lower as we lower the volume. It never gets to the point where the distortion is so low that the noise floor starts to affect the results.

    graph3d.png
     
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  7. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Distortion in bass is less pronounced at lower SPLs which makes sense, but it seems like those two peaks at around 2.2kHz and ~5kHz are steady. Not artefacts?

    Edit: I almost guessed the same about why midrange THD was creeping upwards but then I actually remembered to read the caption haha. At least I guessed right :p

    Lemme guess how to interpret: notable bass distortion especially at high volumes but generally remarkably clean all throughout the rest of the audible spectrum save for a couple of peaks that could translate to a slightly grittier treble presentation? Basically: pretty dammed impressive.


    Curious how a fully stock HD600 compares here.

    Also, possibly idiotic suggestion but how much of a pain would it be to have individual surfaces for D2, D3, and D4 with each surface being translucent and superimposed on the same axes?

    Might be interesting, like how you could glean bass quality on e.g. the Campfire Andromeda not being the best since D3 takes over the entire lower end with D2 underneath etc. Or maybe sticking to traditional "slices" at set SPLs.
     
  8. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    It would be interesting so see that JAR600 THD surface decomposed into individual surfaces for D2, D3 and D4 through D10.

    Conjecture: If most of the rise in distortion in the low frequency were due to D2, and if D4 through D10 were found to remain very low, that would be a really great result.
     
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  9. purr1n

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    JAR600 Second Harmonic
    upload_2023-11-11_20-13-2.png

    JAR600 Third Harmonic
    upload_2023-11-11_20-16-26.png
    Note: < 100Hz is subject to noise particularly at low output levels

    JAR600 Fourth Harmonic
    upload_2023-11-11_20-20-21.png
    Note: < 100Hz is subject to noise particularly at low output levels
     
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  10. purr1n

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    Grado RS2X - F cush

    THD
    upload_2023-11-11_20-54-5.png

    D2
    upload_2023-11-11_20-53-22.png

    D3
    upload_2023-11-11_20-55-6.png

    D4
    upload_2023-11-11_20-56-5.png

    Note higher D3 (third order) and D4 (fourth order) distortion on RS2X compared to JAR600. And of course obviously higher THD and D2 to JAR600 (over graph boundary for higher SPL).
     
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  11. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    This is excellent work. What tools are you using?
    ARTA for measurements?
    ??? for visualizations?
    ??? for automation from data collection to visualization?
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    • ARTA: Primarily for speed. Unfortunately can't do D4+, only up to D4. You know how it goes. APx555 software cannot separate D2, D3, D4 on a sweep result. I know, lacking for $35k instrumentation.
    • RINEARN for viz: Weirdo Japanese tool, which often equates to quirky, but also many levels of awesome.
    • Automation: Still mostly by hand, with Excel intermediate step, but with some assistance from AutoHotKey. I will finish scripts to automate more pieces of it.
     
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  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    FWIW, ETA Mini C
    (Noting < 100Hz at lower SPL is prone to noise. It's late evening, but I've got big trucks and a Naval air station down the shore.)

    D2
    upload_2023-11-11_21-27-3.png

    D3
    upload_2023-11-11_21-27-42.png

    D4
    upload_2023-11-11_21-29-13.png

    @E_Schaaf and @tommytakis: you guys should brag about this.
     
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  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    SBAF is awesome because of people like you and many others. Lots of inspiration. The irony is that we don't advertise science, but we sure practice it, willing to learn and do new things, as opposed to adhering to dogma.
     
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  15. Biodegraded

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    These displays are very cool and look useful for comparing distortion components between headphones, but when presenting measurements of individual headphones I hope you'll still show individual SPL slices with all the harmonics on each. IMO the latter makes for easier assessment of how the different harmonics relate to each other and how that relationship changes with SPL. I found that really educational when you showed it for BA vs DD IEMs.
     
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  16. purr1n

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    Keeping in mind the old distortion layout used absolute SPL values for distortion and that these visualisations here are distortion in percent, we can still see infer similar. Third order (D3) distortion, because they are so clustered together (in absolute SPL) regardless of volume, will rise in percentage as we go lower in volume output. Not only that, it's the dominant form of distortion over the second harmonic (D2).

    CFA Ara (BA IEM)

    D2
    upload_2023-11-12_13-44-44.png

    D3
    upload_2023-11-12_13-44-26.png
     
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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
  17. Si_1967

    Si_1967 New

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    Fantastic guys
    What a wonderful way to actually 'see' distortion vs frequency at the real world levels we listen.
    Equally, being able to see the influence of 2nd, 3rd, 4th & higher harmonics is 'possibly' key to a components sound signature?
    With different scales applies to source, amp, headphones, speakers.
    Brilliant work... Thank you.
     
  18. purr1n

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    Pinnacle P1 IEM Massdrop version.

    This is a DD or dynamic driver IEM. A few notes:
    • Unlike the BA IEM, the third order harmonic (D3) is lower instead of higher than the second harmonic (D2).
    • Like the results above, as we go lower in volume to the point where distortion is barely measurable (limitation of the measurement microphone), distortion as a percentage starts to rise.
    D2
    upload_2023-11-12_19-52-49.png

    D3
    upload_2023-11-12_19-53-43.png

    Finally two more thoughts:
    1. Should we be displaying the absolute SPL of the distortion in db instead of THD percentage? After all, we hear in absolute decibel terms.
    2. Should we be plotting distortion where it actually occurs? For example, second order harmonic of 100Hz is 200Hz. If there is second order distortion at 100Hz, we aren't hearing a messed up 100Hz, we are hearing crap at 200Hz that shouldn't be there
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
  19. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    2. I gave this some consideration years ago but came to the conclusion that it is good to know the sins of commission that will be added to the particular frequency being measured. After awhile it became more intuitive.
     
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  20. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    0.02: distortion in terms of absolute SPL (A-weighted?) makes more sense definitely; percentage is a "neat" thing and pretty well established at this point but makes it hard to see the scale of things in a tangible way.

    You experimented with presenting harmonic distortion AT the frequencies that they manifested at but I personally somehow had more trouble with those.

    Seems more intuitive (imo) to keep with the older way for this one, e.g. "oh distortion is high under 200Hz AND it's primarily D3 so it's a wooly muffled mess (MDR-Z1R)" or "huh the Klipsch HP-3 has a weird sort of THD spike around 3kHz, mainly D2 but with some upper harmonics, coinciding with a CSD ridge around there— maybe that's why the treble is a bit less refined?"
     
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