do i need acoustic treatment?

Ever since I've switched mainly to speakers about 3 months ago I've started having an issue with bass guitars in some songs. It's always the same tone and it's always comes from bass guitars it seems. It's this weird vibrating overtone sound, almost a low buzzing. never noticed it with headphones,

An example of this is in Forty Six & 2 By Tool @ the 2:45 mark onward

Another is in Take it Easy by The Eagles @ around the 1:45 mark and onward during the solo

It almost sounds like the bass player got pissed decided to turn up his amp or something It's odd because with other bass sounds whether synths or drums it doesn't happen and I don't notice anything odd. it's just with bass guitars.


Should I look into putting some acoustic foam on the right and left walls as well as directly behind the speakers? I'm already using isoacoustic stands for them and I am in a small carpeted room,

 

You gotta tell us the speakers you own and the size of your room.

 

Could either be your room or the speakers depending on the frequency. Usually it's the room but I've heard some huge cabinet resonances in some speakers.
According to the tracks and parts you mentioned, I'm guessing that it's either around 100, 150 or 200Hz. Use this: http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
Sweep tones up and down and try to find out which frequency it is.

Room treatment won't really do shit against bass room modes. The wavelengths are just way too low to effectively absorb. There's really nothing much you can do except getting a bigger room (including higher ceiling) or trying to optimize your speaker and listening position so the room modes aren't as annoying with music.
Absorption at the first reflection points can really help with imaging.

 

ls50 are the speakers

 

First experiment with positioning,

 

most likely standing wave build-up and comb filtering in the room. i never used the kef ls50 but, always wanted to try them out of curiosity. basic room treatment method is take care of all reflective points and standing waves, and of course bass traps if you feel it's necessary but, most likely bass mode issues are usually biggest problem, even in large rooms(i had bass problems in 20x20 room used before...so unless your room is atleast 60x60 you're gonna have bass mode issues). sounds harder then what it is but, not really. only other option is eq but, eq can only do so much. it will not repair room comb filtering issues or nulls. can eq room peaks out but, that's bout it.

problem though most people find it an aesthetic issue when comes to room treating so it's always up to user itself and what they want. that's why placement and eq'ing usually first types of advice to try first. lot people don't like silence or feel of dead sounding areas. lot people will feel very weird if came into my room with noise floor of bit under 10db which is more twice more quiet than well built library.

that's not true at all. reason most traps fail is density and material. most people use foam crap or very thin 2-4'' fiberglass/wool for traps. that's not gonna absorb much at all. traps need to consist of 9-18'' thick and can be compressed(fiberglass atleast). what will happen is if properly done not only is the effective absorption is taken place it will also lower he room's response greatly as well.

i think down to 100hz for full absorption. traps need to be atleast 4-6'' thick and of dense material like rockwool or fiberglass. not foam. 9'' thickness is effecive down to 50hz and 18'' thick or known as ''true basstraps'' or ''superchunck bass traps'' will absorb down to 20hz but, i doubt his speakers can reach below 40hz without noticable harmonic 2nd and 3rd order distortion start spiking and setting in.

 

cool so tell me what to buy and where to buy it

 

i can only make suggestions. fiberglass is oldschool way and been used since like the 70's.. people like rockwool because of the friendliness of not exactly needing covering. it is more dense per inch compared to fiberglass in some cases but, when coming to price factor and don't mind diy approach or worried bout touching the stuff fiberglass always wins with price vs. density. i can get 9'' thick 50ft roll of fiberglass for like 12 something where 12 slabs of 3ft long 4'' thick rockwool is over 40 bucks a bag. rockwool is also not flexiable where fiberglass is. only problem with fiberglass is it has to be covered if plan on using it in living qauters due to any vibration in the air will cause particles to fly in the air....

i suggest doing some reading before getting into this. it's lot simpler than people make it out to be but, knowing the basics will give you an understanding and letting you know what you want. there is also coefficient data saved somewhere online and can learn bout that as well since different materials were tested against and away from walls...thing is when reading a bit, audiophiles or audio enthusiast swear you need as much space from wall and trap as the density of the trap itself to work properly which is not true. it is effective against the wall as spaced and will save big time room too...

i only know of the materials since i worked with them and always used fiberglass myself. lot people hate the stuff but, i don't mind it. it's cheap and works as one of the best insulators for the money. also while some people believe in helmholtz resonators and diffusers, i believe in old fashion simple absorption and it's up to the speakers to do the job of precise imaging and staging but, everyone is different...

just don't buy those 4'' foam stuff....it's been proven not effective even at 200hz range much really and they're way over-priced and spendy. how they still sell nowadays for what they go for is beyond me. foam though can be great absorber for others reasons but, room treatment it is not effective tool if plan on absorbing lower-mids to sub-bass.

also on where to buy thing..i don't know where live but, if in states, local home dept or lowes do fine and always available. during summer season though insulation might cost bit more due to higher demand but, who knows. haven't been home dept since spring when was warming up and prices were pretty much same.

 

Okay I just used the tone generator
at 80hz i get the vibrations and resonances when at loud volumes (much louder then I'd listen to songs at or that , that frequency is mixed into songs) I tried using a parametric eq and brough it down at like 4db and it didn't really make much of a difference oddly ?

I've only found like 3 songs out of my whole collection that I have this problem with. Maybe just a sub optimal song mix for my setup? Or maybe my Yggdrasil is capturing all the problems in the recording. maybe I should try these songs with a d/s dac and see what happens.

 

also, going by what you said, I assume things like this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/auralex-studiofoam-wedgies-24-pack

would be a waste of money?

 

The fastest way to figure this out is get yourself setup with a way to measure the room. ARTA or REW and a mic like this: https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1 or this http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-umm-6-usb-measurement-microphone--390-808

Then you know what you're working with. Then move them around, measuring, seeing what works best. You might be surprised by moving the speakers a foot or two, or changing the layout of the room could lessen the severity of the issues you're hearing.

That particular Tool track has tons of lovely peaks in all the worst regions of the midbass for room modes. Just the way the stuff was mixed.

 

Can you just use some furniture/bookshelves/plants/curtains to break up the main reflection points? That'll do the most without needing extra tomfoolery.

 

depends who the person is and needs. to me, yes, it'll be total waste when i don't mind diy or have to worry bout waf appeal or anything but, i do understand not everyone has that luxury. also if you're renting it can be an issue with most landlords. even smallest staple or thumbtack will annoy them and consider it damaging of the property...there is reasons. that stuff will be most useful for highs down to bout mids so, it's good for basic reflective points but, if clustered together to form one good panel. if spread apart, they will just act like diffusers in a way since it'll absorb some of the range within the reflective point and where it's placed at.

still 89 bucks is good mount of money..i'm not cheap in anyway but, always look at better alternatives for the money. its up to the person him/herself for final decision on what they want or need.

 

I had the same problem with my LS50ies. It was the back wall - the bass hump was larger on one channel due to corner loading. I was able to make the problem less obvious by stuffing the ports with the supplied plugs, but it really went away after using EQ software.

 

What kind of surface do you have your isoacoustic stands on? Like others have said speakers like as much free space around them as possible. Personally i always use proper heavy stands that stand on the floor. If you have your stands on a big cabinet that can cause problems too.

 

the ls50s are on a desk, im using them as studio monitor with the isoacoustics stand

like i said, it's not a huge deal, it's only like 3 songs, 2 of them arn't even that annoying, only bothersome one is that tool track. (pretty shitily mastered album aenema actually all their albums are pretty off sounding except undertow)

I have the egg foams plugged in the back, tried stuffing them with the full foam and that helped!

I think im going to trying putting up some fiber glass on the wall behind them and see what happens.

 

i like tool. yea some of their stuff not greatest recording but, i like their music. i just never had midbass issues with them but, then again i haven't listened to them for like over a year. i have couple albums of theirs so i probably check it out one day.

it being on desk still can cause good reflection issue a bit. if table/desk is not covered. i always used good nice looking plain thick cloth/felt blankets on my table/desk when i use o use it at my old place. i no longer use a table since pretty much my large 4645 sub is my table now. fiberglass will work lot better but remember cover it. even ghetting it using pillow cases will work fine. it might seem ghetto but it works. i done stuff like that before when use to play around and record a bit for fun. always thought bout getting back into but, been procrastinating and doing other things...and friend has my midi keyboard still....

 

only song ive found that has the issue is forty six and two, all other tool songs are okay