ECP Torpedo III [indexed in first post]

Some impression's, the synergy with Yggdrasil is really excellent. It takes all the detail Yggdrasil throws at it and presents it all in a delicate non overbearing manner. Transient respone is top notch, tonality spot on, good solid state like bass with liquid mids and smooth high's like only a tube amp can present you. No harsh whatsoever, can listen for hours on end. The amp is still burning in and so is my brain but so far it is really impressive!

Some nitpicks: The stock tubes sound good but i can hardly use the volume pot before it get's too loud but that's more to do with my preferences i guess. Less of a problem with low-z but high-z sounds more engaging(modded 650's). Btw judging by the tube section on the build site it is normal that there is quite a volume difference between the two right?

There is some mechanical hum coming from the power transformer which can be heard from about 50cm but not from my listening position. If this were on a desktop i don't think this would be acceptable to me. Also on one of the Cinemag's those stacked metal plates are a bit loose and it looked a bit off on the bottom as well. Next to the soldering lugs there were some round things on the plastic so i couldn't mount it flush. Does the kit come with thermal pads? Mine didn't have any so i used thermal paste which seems to work fine. No arctic silver or anything though

The Cinemag thing doesn't really bother me it sounds good but if there are reliability concerns then well yeah i'd like to get it sorted ofc. The hum might be worse since the lid is not screwed on, haven't tried that yet but was messing with 12au7's i have lying around.

But all in all a wonderful amp

 

Great first impressions, Riotvan.. Thank you! Is your TIII stock?

 

Thanks, it has the css boards and the Solen caps. Otherwise completely stock with stock tubes.

 

A few of the Cinemags have few lams that are askew. It is ugly, but there is no issue with performance or reliability. Noting to worry about.

The PT, however, should not have mechanical hum. Every once in a while one does. If it is bothersome, it can be replaced.

 

This is extremely useful. Even down all the way to 2.2u, there's just under a 1dB bump in bass until you get really low in the frequency spectrum, which is not bad at all. Indeed this might open some additional doors.

 

The Rike Audio S-Caps are loaded into Torpedo tubes 1 to 4

The good folks at Rike Audio suggest to add mechanical damping with bitumen pads or similar for best sound. Apparently they feel it reduces resonances. So what I did was to install these with teflon tubing on the legs and then fill the room between the caps with black silicone glue.

Just fired up the amp and will let it burn in for a few hours before listening...

 

IMHO it's not the frequency plot that's the most important since we have very little musical information at 20hz anyway. It's the phase that is the issue and it should be linear from 20hz to 20K. It's not with 2.2uF, the graph shows 30 degree phase shift at 20hz. I think that's why Dsavitsk mention that 10uF is the correct choice and that the 2.2uF caps will probably please midrange focused people...

Going from 10uF to 5uF seems like an acceptable compromise though: The phase does not suffer that much compared to using 10uF, and it does open the door to other caps. But it's still a compromise.

 

Ok thanks for puttng my mind at ease with regard to the Cinemag. About the PT i will think about it, see if it's worth the hassle.

 

I can confirm Riotvan, that the PT can be totally silent at 230V AC, just to say this is not some kind of 115V -vs- 230V thing.

 

Yeah i figured as much, i recall someone earlier in the thread also having this issue. Btw those caps you are using, did you say they are an old version and the new ones are bigger? They look interesting, looking forward to your impressions

 

I hate humming transformers, so if I were you I would accept the offer to have it replaced...

Yes, these Rike Audio S-Caps I use are the now discontinued version. The new S-Cap 2 cost just a bit more, but are much bigger. You would certainly need that new chassis to fit those
https://rikeaudio.de/store/en/paperpolypropylenaluminiumoil-capacitors/8-s-cap-2-47-f-48-95-50.html

 

Yeah but 20 Hz isn't of much concern. 15 degrees at 30 Hz though, and nothing distinguishable by 100 Hz. I bet splitting the difference with something around a 3.3 uF cap is still pretty reasonable. I think there's a set of caps I want to try that'd actually fit at 3.3 uF. Or maybe I need to get my hearing checked.

BTW, nice fitment on the Rike. Interested in what you hear. Other impressions I've seen on those indicate they should add some punch and forwardness, and sometimes even mentioned in the same sentence as Dueland...

Oh, and, +1 on the power transformer hum. Go for the swap out, IMO. Mine is also totally silent, although 115VAC.

 

Ah well they are too expensive for me anyway, i spent too much money the last month i need to recover now haha. And i've come around on the chassis, i love the formfactor it has a cool look to it.

Well the hum/buzz seems to lesten a bit now. But i'll ask Thomas how that will work, if i have to go a week or more without this wonderful amp i might get withdrawel symptoms

Also tried some GE 12au7's first impression is limp dick bass but nice texture to the mids. Went back to stock pretty quick.

Think i'll buy some EH 12au7's if they sound the same just with a little more play on the volume it will be awesome.

 

Sorry - been covered up lately with my "day" job and now, Father's Day. I've been trying to keep up on the phone, but it doesn't lend itself well to making posts.

Anyway, Riotvan - I'll have a new PT shipped out to you tomorrow.

 

Wow thanks! Excellent service, much appreciated

 

It's your call of course. I agree with Dsavitsk that 10uF is the correct value, and for me 5uF is the compromise I can accept to get better sounding caps. YMMV

Funny btw, that Americans spell ''Duelund'' with an ''a'' and call them ''Dueland''. I have never understood that, but I see Duelund spelled like that all the time on US forums. The products are here from Denmark and named after the late Steen Duelund, who was a pioneer in high end audio in many ways. He had some radical ideas, that lead to radical products. The Gryphon Audio - Poseidon speaker system for instance, and these wonderful caps.

The Duelund caps are extremely natural sounding and very resolved and layered. Never forward though, actually they have this calm and coherent ''thing'' about them and some feel this makes them a bit laid back. I don't, I find them natural sounding. And yes: The Rike Audio should have some of the same qualities as the Duelund.

I have this nice pair of 1.0uF copper foil Duelund sitting on my desk waiting for the next project (a tube based phono stage). With these caps you can actually see, what you're getting Big, heavy and expensive chunks filled with copper foil...

 

I'm also using copper foils in an upcoming project which conveniently requires much lower capacitance, so there were many options available at not so back-breaking prices for that project. What you're saying agrees with what I've heard elsewhere as well. Deulunds should never be forward, but Rike caps will be in a side by side compare. The Jupiters were very reasonable at the size and capacitance I needed, so I'll probably give them a go. I actually have half a mind to install some binding posts on the inside of the chassis to allow for quick swaps.... but maybe that's just too nutty.

Back on topic ...... I can't seem to find any appropriately sized 4.7uF caps that interest me for the T3. I think that's probably a good thing all said and done. And on second thought I think that starting to allow the phase response to drift much more, even in the low end, is probably not the best tradeoff to make.

Happy fathers day, everyone. Out to the pool with kiddies now!

 

Yes, Jupiter caps has a natural sound, similar to Duelund - and they are much better value. Duelund are too expensive in my opinion so I have used Jupiter instead when a coherent and natural sound is called for.

On the forward -vs- laid back issue the Rike Audio are certainly less forward than the Mundorfs (more on this later), but I think you are right, that they are more forward than Duelund (just about every cap is). The Rike Audio appears to be as layered and spacious as something like Duelund or Jupiter, but less laid back, they appear to be natural, neutral and with great attack... This based on just a few minutes listening after just an hour or two burn in. More to come on the Rike Audio caps.

Edit... Agreed, it's very difficult to find top quality 4.7uF caps, that fit inside the T3. The only really good ones I could find was the Rike Audio, and only the discontinued version will fit...

 

Can someone show me where the two Mundorf center spacers go on the T3? What is the silly putty for?

 

Give me a minute ...