ECP Torpedo III [indexed in first post]

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by FlySweep, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. FlySweep

    FlySweep Friend

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    It's here! The highly anticipated (at least by me and many others!) ECP Torpedo III. For those unaware, these links should get you initiated:

    http://diyforums.org/Torpedo-III/TorpedoIII-overview.php

    http://www.beezar.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=166

    http://www.head-fi.org/t/781651/torpedo-iii-build-thread

    Looks like a terrific amp for dynamics as well as *some* planars. I look forward to hearing it!

    DISCUSS !

    -- EDIT 1/8/2016 --

    Per some recent SBAF experiences with the TIII (here, here, and here), it seems the T3 is best fit for dynamic driver phones and very efficient planars (with impedance specs around 32 ohms when driven from the TIII's low z output)

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    IMPRESSIONS & RELEVANT NOTES

    - TomB's tube rolling notes / tubes, caps, etc. / some heater current info on tubes / bypass caps (more impressions) / impressions w/ AIO output caps / more helpful tube impressions

    - Doug's info on BJT/MOSFET options / installing the CCS boards / bypass caps / more CCS board exper.

    - MisterRogers tips on installing aftermarket film caps

    - Mr Sneis' with some helpful info/pics on installing aftermarket (Mundorf) output caps

    - @HitmanFluffy's terrific tube review.
    - A set of Solen caps have been found to be a suitable replacement for the stock (Epcos) caps. They're easier to install than the Mundorf caps. @HitmanFluffy has some brief impressions vs the stock caps here. @TomB has some useful comparisons of the Solen caps to the Epcos & Mundorf AIO here and here.

    - @MortenB chronicled his mods to run new wire, add a TKD pot, choke, and upgrade the RCA plugs: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4
    - Resistor rolling ideas from @bazelio : 1
    - Resistor rolling impressions : 1 / 2 / 3

    - The Great TIII Tubeup! A small group of SBAF's met up and had a TIII/tube shootout. This is a terrific post detailing some impressions from the meet and how the TIII's sounds with various mods (and tubes) to date:
    @bazelio's impressions
    @philipmorgan's addt'l notes.

    - Rike cap rolling impressions: 1 / 2

    - @TomB has detailed the installation of many of the TIII tweaks & upgrades that have been discussed and implemented in this thread over at the DIYForums TIII page. Check the "Tweaks" page on the left hand side for more info.

    General TIII impressions

    @fierce_freak -- 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9
    @MisterRogers -- 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9
    @badf00d -- 1 / 2
    @dsavitsk -- 1 / 2 / 3
    @TheloniuSnoop -- 1 (good tube notes here)
    @Dr. Higgs -- 1
    @purrin -- 1
    @Ice-man -- 1 / 2
    @drfindley -- 1
    @Hands -- 1 / 2
    @SteelCannon -- 1 / 2
    @Ziva -- 1
    @TomB -- 1
    @Effusion -- 1
    @brencho -- 1
    @NoStream -- 1
    @philipmorgan -- 1
    @Jun Li -- 1
    @ersthwil -- 1
    @Alaarx -- 1
    @Jh4db536 -- 1
    @fjrabon -- 1
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
    captkirk, Melvillian, thoth and 17 others like this.
  2. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

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    Oh crap, i think i want one...
     
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  3. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    I have one on order with the Cinemags.
     
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  4. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    Crap, I have to build my house and have no time for diy.
     
  5. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    $125 for the PCB alone?! At that price why even offer the PCB?
     
  6. kapanak

    kapanak Canucklehead - Friend

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    I also ordered a kit with Cinemags. One matter to note for Canadian buyers: make sure you select Canadian dollar as your currency. TomB gives a better price than the current currency exchange.
    What is your point?
     
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  7. No_One411

    No_One411 Fired by Jude

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    Could be for people that wanna go with their own chassis. That might be the only way to fit different caps if you're into that thing.

    Don't underestimate the time and energy it takes to properly design a PCB.

    I really wanna build this!
     
  8. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    When you look at the total BOM and the cost of the kit you should realize that pretty much everything is being sold at cost. All the margin is in the PCB and chassis and maybe a few other parts. Remember beezar (TomB) and ECP (Doug) are commercial entities. You're essentially buying a packaged kit from Digikey (economies of scale help as Beezar will order at a volume with a cheaper unit price than what you would) with a ~25% gratuity to the dudes who are researching/designing/producing/supporting the project. Or at least that's the way I figure.

    Doug or Tom can correct me if I'm mistaken.
     
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  9. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Friend

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    Yea, I ended up ordering one too; I built a T1, and it was one hell of an amp or the cost. I'm excited to hear TIII with Cinemags.
     
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  10. kapanak

    kapanak Canucklehead - Friend

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    Good points. @Jamey Warren can correct me if I'm wrong, but in the personal audio business, everybody from manufacturers to dealers all aim for an ideal 30% profit margin. Beezar and ECP are no different, and they are also contributing to the DIY audio world, and their product is quite unique and well R&D'ed.

    The kit, with or without Cinemags, is quite worth it. Not sure if individual parts (PCB, case, transformers, etc) by themselves are as good a value, except to a Torpedo I owner and tinkerer.
     
  11. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Nice! I'll have to check that out at a meet after you build it. @MisterRogers
     
  12. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday! - Friend

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    I'll be jumping in on it within the week, hopefully you jerks don't buy up all the cinemags by then.
     
  13. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Pulled that figure out of my ass. Point is it's chump change. I doubt Doug is feeding his family on Torpedo PCBs.
     
  14. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Don't misconstrue my comment to mean that I don't believe there is a valid justification. I fully understand that engineering a PCB takes time and effort which cost money. If only a small number of PCBs are produced then you aren't able to distribute engineering cost as easily which also leads to higher prices.

    What I am saying is at that price I would only consider the full kit. The PCB for the original Torpedo was only $50 and is at a price point where I consider sourcing my own components. $125 is one of the highest prices I have seen anywhere for a DIY PCB.
     
  15. No_One411

    No_One411 Fired by Jude

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    Offering the PCB only at that price is not a big deal since the kit is obviously what most people will consider. It's not like that's the only option available.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    The PCB is the crucial piece and encompasses more than the PCB itself: the R&D and costs necessary to keep Tomb's business alive. The alternative is to have not anything at all. I imagine this kit to be awesome with Cinemags.

    Now if only Tomb could stop crapping on me every chance he gets (this has been going for two years now) for using and enjoying the Abyss from the Schiit Vali, I'd perhaps more wholeheartedly support Beezar.com. :(
     
  17. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    It's funny how bad people (in general) are at paying for R&D costs and for things like software. If it's not a physical thing made by a physical process one by one, we have a hard time paying for it. Robots and software have ruined everything. Not sure why it was harder to spend $$ on Audirvana than buying cables, even though I've spent much less and it's benefitted me probably more.

    It's still absurd how good the Vali is. It's hard to accept such an amp into one's religion. Oh well.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Talking about software, Adobe's got a great scam now with their subscription model.
     
  19. dsavitsk

    dsavitsk Friend

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    There was a long debate where I didn't want to sell just PCBs at all, or at least if we did I wanted to charge a lot for them. Tom wanted to sell them for the low cost usually charged by people who sell PCBs only spreading the profit equally across all the parts. We met in the middle. But basically, the PCB encompasses the board itself plus the development costs which were considerable in this case. It really is only for sale at all for people who own the T1 and want to upgrade it without buying a whole new case.

    Even several years later, we still have lost a ton of money on the T1 with no prospect of turning that around. That's OK as we consider DIY to be a community service to an extent, and we learned a lot during the process. That said, we don't want to lose money on this one, too, if we can help it. But no, nobody is paying the mortgage with Torpedo money -- I'm not even feeding the cats with it.

    Overall, Tom was actually very uncomfortable with raising the T1 price, or with where the T3 price was going to come in. So if anyone is to blame, it's me. :)

    :( Not sure what that's all abut. Tom is usually so easy going and friendly -- I'll ask him about it.
     
  20. fierce_freak

    fierce_freak Friend

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    I grabbed a kit with cinemags. Looking forward to it!

    The only boutique caps that I think you can squeeze in without a custom case or some other wizardry is the mundorf evo series. I have an order in for the silver gold in oils (25% off sale, still ouch) but considering cancelling and changing to aluminum in oils. Anyone have any experience with either?

    Also considering grabbing a tkd 2cp-601 pot to replace the alps (fan of the tkd). I know the pinout is the same but trying to figure out if it will line up with the front panel.

    I'd love to hear what you think compared to your old mainline! From memory of course. I cancelled a mainline order to grab the t3, really wanted to support Doug. Hope it was a great choice.
     
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