ECP Torpedo III [indexed in first post]

About the buzz - this is a sometime gremlin with the PT. I say that because I've replaced several PTs in the past, only to have Edcor tell me there's nothing wrong with them. I've also had assembled T3's that I've sold (and T1's - they both use the same PT) where people have complained of external noise or a buzz, but I have been unable to replicate it. Obviously, they never buzzed for me before I sold them, because I listen to and burn-in every amp that I sell. Bottom line, I have never, ever - all the way back to the T1 and through prototypes, assembled versions I've sold, etc., etc. - had a PT to audibly buzz in my environment. This, despite the fact that Doug has stated that every power transformer has mechanical noise of some amount. Either they simply do not buzz in my environment, or I am partially deaf enough to never hear any mechanical noise.

The result is that I've often been forced to suggest that the customer's line power is somehow substandard or there is something in the vicinity of the amp that is disturbing the PT. The PT is unshielded, save for a metal tape around the windings. It will easily react with any other line power transformer (or similar) in the vicinity. One has to conclude that other devices may conflict with it as well.

So, if there is any possibility that the amp is near another line power device, or if the particular outlet you plug into is shared with other noise-making devices (motors, etc.), the PT is going to react. I believe I've seen a post by Marv where he states a similar issue with an EC amp is because there is DC riding on the line voltage. Doug will have to confirm for us whether this is possible on the T3/Edcor PT, but it might fit with the experience I'm relating.

As for the high-pitched, soft sound in one ear, I agree with Riotvan that it may be a tube, especially if you are only hearing it on one channel. Swapping the tubes from one channel to the other should quickly tell you whether that's it.

Just to be clear, I will replace any PT for you (or tube, if it was one of mine) if it's causing you noise. That may not really be the issue, though.

 

Would it be safe to kit the base of the PT? The kit i use has anti vibration properties, it's also non conductive and non corrosive.

 

Thanks guys, and thanks for the detailed response, TomB. I don't want to put you through the trouble of replacing a PT if it's unlikely there's actually anything wrong with it. It also doesn't affect the sound through headphones, so it's not terrible. I do hate the noise, though, probably because it reminds me of the sound of my old plasma. I just moved desks at work where I keep my rig, though, and I'm less likely to hear it now.

I get the same buzz at home, too. I don't remember hearing the buzz at work or at home months ago, but I may have just missed it. It's also possible DC has been introduced into both lines somehow. Before I took this last audiophoolery hiatus I started researching DC blockers. Maybe time to revisit.

Also, output ccs! I'll have to pick a set up from you, TomB!

-edit- just wanted to add how much I still love this amp. Months and months later, my gamma3->torp3->modded HD800 gives me goosebumps here and there. Really top notch.

 

Does anyone know how the original T1 with Cinemag OPTs compares to the "maxed out" T3? By reading this thread it is difficult not to consider all the T3 tweak options, but then I don't trust my DIY skill enough for a $950 kit.

The T1 with the Cinemag OPTs costs less than 2/3 of the max out T3 kit, and if it is comparable to the T3 for driving less current demanding dynamic cans, it would be a worthy option to me.

 

@TomB, are there any suitable options for upgrade power transformers that you're aware of? They may not be as worthwhile sonically as the other official tweaks have been, but given the circuit is pretty maxed out tweak-wise after the CCS output boards it seems like the power supply is the last place to really improve (hence the choke and regulator upgrades). Maybe a nice Lundahl?

 

Beezar has always provided pricing proportional with performance.

The T1 is a great amp and adding Cinemags would make it greater, no doubt. However, it's no T3 - and that was before any of the non-Cinemag tweaks that were added to the T3.

There are assembled versions of the T3 that are available. I can also build one to order.

 

Doug probably needs to answer this one ...

 

I have a T3 with Cinemags and no mods, and an as-yet-uninstalled set of the first CCS boards that Doug provided to a few people here. I now have the components from Mouser I need for those to be installed. Is there a set that supercedes the version I would have? Also, what other upgrades would your recommend while I have the amp under the knife?

 

The first set of ccs boards (small tube ccs) are still relevant, but now there are also 4 larger ccs boards that have a larger effect on the amp. So the latest T3 upgrades include both ccs board types, cinemags, and possibly Mundorf caps.

Btw, for those interested, I managed to find 8 rike caps (4.7uf). I've since abandoned my rike ambitions but for anyone who wants them, audiohobby.eu has 8, or 2 sets worth.

 

Per @TomB, the tube CCS boards that Doug provided before the official release are identical in performance to the ones in the production run Beezar now offers. @dsavitsk & @TomB just released an output CCS board. Other mods that many owners have performed are:

-Replacing the stock parafeed caps with Mundorf AIO/SGO or Rike caps(the SGO variant & Rike caps being much more expensive than the AIO).. a Solen cap was found to fit nicely, as well.. but its SQ was deemed to be a bit below the more popular Mundorf AIO caps (see the index/first post for more info).

-Replacing many of the key resistors in the signal path with a blend of Amtrans AMRG & Shinkoh Tantalum resistors. PartsConneXion, Acoustic Dimension, and HiFi Collective (UK) have all proven to be reliable vendors for these resistors. You should be able to find them in stock between those three shops.

-Replacing the RCA plugs, adding an electronic choke, and swapping in a more boutique volume pot are mods a few members have done, as well.

Check the first post for links to all of these mods (and accompanying impressions).

 

@bazelio .. you're modding your TIII's low z output to better drive the 80 ohm (?) Elear.. will the resistors you plan to install only affect the low z output (high z will still be optimized for 300 ohm phones)? I've ordered an Elear, as well.. and like you, I plan to drive it with the TIII's low z output. So, your modding impressions here would be helpful! I love the idea of socketing the resistors, too (does this mean you can keep the stock resistor path (optimized for 32 ohm-ish phones) in place?

Are there any down sides to adding this tweak (reduced output power, etc.)?

 

True. However compared to everything else I have heard to date, the T3 performance/price ratio (with a few simple tweaks) is unproportional. It's a beast and a bargain all things considered.

Yeah, we discussed it a few pages back. My only concern is bleeding off 2/3 of the output power in a parallel resistor. But that might not be any issue at all. We will see. Implementation-wise you can do it two ways: (1) solder directly to the 32R secondary taps or (2) solder to the OR,OG,OL measurement pads. #1 will affect only the low-Z setting. #2 will affect both low and high Z OPT outputs. My first pass is going to be to solder three pin sockets to OR,OG,OL so I can insert and remove the parallel output load resistors easily like tube rolling. Once I decide how I like it, then I'll decide what to do next.

 

Just curious about this, because after my hugely uninformed post about the T3 output impedance, Doug said back in this post, that the T3 output impedance at Low Z is something less than 10. If the Elear is nominally 86 ohms, that's already well over the generally-accepted 8:1 damping ratio.

 

So, I got a ECP DSHA2 to head to head battle with the Torpedo III this weekend. I'll post some impressions if you guys are interested. Never quite sure what the focus of this thread is, a general catch all for the TIII or mostly focused on dIY on the TIII with a few impressions.

 

No series resistance being added. Parallel resistance to create a 32R load for the OPT with a parallel 55R resistor to the 78-80R headphone load .

 

@fjrabon i think a comparison between ECP amps (which include the TIII) is totally fair game

 

Okay, cool. I'll give a few days to post some in depth impressions. But for the curious:

First thing I will say with the DSHA2 is that the detail in hard transients is stunning. Like there's information in those hard transients that I never knew existed, or thought was overwhelmed with the rest of the signal. Detail I didn't notice on a 400,000 Focal speaker setup. You can hear the character of a guitarist's pluck when a hard kick drum and snare drum strike is made simultaneously. The TIII (and every other amp I've ever heard outside of the KGSSHV with SR009) sort of smears things together in hard transients just a touch. It somehow kicks out power without ever losing any detail.

The TIII holds its own in tonality and power. And resolution most of the time. But the ability to hold micro detail in hard transients that the DSHA2 pulls off is something I've never heard before with any dynamic amp. It keeps the transparency in the midrange of a world class electrostatic setup while maintaining the low end power of a world class dynamic setup. The treble is something like a combination of a great dynamic and electrostatic setup. The treble transparency of a great e-stat setup with the smoothness in the treble (smoothness, not roll off) of a world class dynamic tube amp.

The TIII is 95% of the way there, but when that 5% magic of the DSHA2 hits, you notice. There's no shame in the TIII though, to get 95% of the way there for around $1500 to maybe the best amp I've ever heard (which I think costs maybe $4000, though Doug can correct me, as I guess the DSHA2 isn't actually for sale yet). Quite an accomplishment for both of these amps.

We gotta just crown Doug. He's designing the best tube and best solid state amps for dynamic headphones in the world. And nobody else is particularly close. The goal of my headphone system has often been to sound like world class speakers. This DSHA2 has gone past that to approaching a real, honest experience of being there in real life. I swear I heard the rustle of Miles Davis' pants on Freddie Freeloader just now.

I'll post some more impressions on Monday as I take some more notes.

 

That's really telling @fjrabon since the TIII is already such a dynamic and highly resolving amp. I'm curious when you have more time to listen what you think about the soundstage, and enveloping nature of the sound out of both amps. In our listening the other day with a very good SS amp and the TIII, they both had similar tonality but the TIII had much more enveloping and 3d sound.

 

DSHA2 noticeably beats the TIII in soundstage depth and height, its immediate and obvious. Imaging accuracy and width are close but DSHA2 may edge out in both. I'll need some more time there.

To me the TIII sounds like the worlds best tube amp and the DSHA2 sounds like an idealized hypothetically perfect tube amp. It's almost like the DSHA sounds like if you took the TIII and upgraded the power supply and had a tube maker create the best tubes the world has ever heard.

And the takeaway I get from this head to head isn't "man the TIII sucks" it's more like "man the TIII is really incredibly good, because it can stand up to this and not back down, even though it ultimately falls slightly behind in a few areas."

 

It's both. As long as any post is in some (meaningful) way related to the TIII, I think it's a valuable contribution to the thread.

Your comparison of the DHSA2 to the TIII is excellent and helpful.