General Speaker Advice and Recommendations

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by shotgunshane, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. Johnny Opps

    Johnny Opps Facebook Friend

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    I'm very much looking forward to hearing about these. I'm planning to try to bring my Aegir's into a dealer to listen to these, and possibly the Harbeth SHL5plus as well along with a bunch of others (see above). One question... the Graham LS6f's have a nominal impedance of 8 ohms, but have you seen a measured impedance curve and know what the actual minimum impedance is, and where it falls? Thanks, and really looking forward to hearing how you get on...
     
  2. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    Thanks! Decoupling from the floor is what I was trying to do - the Herbie's gliders do provide decoupling and vibration damping - but I'm unsure if they are great or merely okay. Might experiment with blu-tack or some Yamamoto ebony footers between the speakers and the stands - currently there is more decoupling material in there. I'm also wondering if something heavy on top (like an offcut of travertine or marble) decoupled from the speaker might improve the coupling to the stand (the speakers are extremely light).
     
  3. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Minimum impedance is 7ohms, with most of the time being above 8 ohms. So should not be a problem for dual Aegirs from that point of view although the actual sensitivity is closer to 82dB, so may take a lot of the volume knob.

    See here (you may need Google translate): https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/kolumny-glosnikowe/3209-chartwell-ls6

    I haven’t heard the Aegirs, but have heard many say the bass is a bit soft. And the LS6s themselves are a bit soft in the bass as well, so you may or may not find them to be a good match from that POV, depending what your expectations are. For the mids and highs I expect it will be a fantastic match.
     
  4. JayC

    JayC Resident Crash Test Dummy

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    What’s the general idea for floorstanders and coupling/decoupling? I’ve been using my Dynaudio special 40 with herbies fat dots on the stands, which are sand filled and coupled to the floor with whatever rubber rings they have under them (I didn’t use the spikes because I have a laminate wood floor)

    the grahams come with just spikes (no little pucks that the spikes could sit in and prevent scratches either) so I assume I just place them on the floor without the spikes, perhaps with some furniture sliders or so.. I’m wondering if decoupling is perhaps a good idea - a subwoofer pad or some other option?
     
  5. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I've not used Herbie's gliders, so I'm only going off of product pictures. But they look like simple furniture sliders that are intended to decouple (slide) on carpet or solid floors in forward/backward side-to-side, but don't necessarily decouple in the z-zxis (up/down) the same way. If you're placing them on carpet, you'd then be using the carpet's squishiness as the vertical axis decoupling, too.

    Rigidly coupling the the speakers to the stands is probably best done by either bolting them down if the speakers have threaded footer inserts, or using metal spikes either from the speaker to the stand (spikes pointing down), or the stand to the speaker (spikes pointing up, but will likely mar the finish of the bottom of the speaker). Adding mass to the speaker cabinet itself might help a rigid coupling to the stand, but may also change the frequency and amount of contribution of the speaker cabinet's resonances to the overall frequency response of the speakers. Could be good, could be bad?

    IME, Blutack works more like a removable adhesive when used as little 1/4" balls squished down between speaker and stand, so, more like a coupler than decoupler.
     
  6. Entropy

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    Hi all, I'm currently looking at options for bookshelf speakers (for use in the nearfield) to replace my current at around ~$1500 USD. Would anybody mind mentioning their favorite bookshelf speakers in that approximate pricerange (+amp/dac pairings if you'd like)? Not looking for very specific recommendations currently, just interested to see what ya'll think.

    Edit: Whoops! Didn't see the impression thread, thanks kindly @LetMeBeFrank
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2023
  7. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    This thread by @rlow should help you out.

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ookshelf-standmount-speaker-impressions.8941/
     
  8. Johnny Opps

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    Question on dual subwoofer placement. I have an absurdly large LR/family room at 45x22 feet, with KLH model 5’s on the short wall, off center because of an off center fireplace; one of the speakers is 2’ out from the corner, the other is 11’ away on the other side of the fireplace.
    Question - if I’m adding dual subwoofers (Rel T9/X, lucky getting them from a friend who didn’t like them fairly inexpensively), should I place them next to the speakers and outboard run at high level inputs, or mid-wall symmetrically on either side of the listening couch but run wirelessly?
     
  9. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I'm of opinion that dual sub systems need careful bass management and measurements. Each sub needs to be measured against the room, other sub, and each of the main speakers. For domestic systems a single better sub is much easier to get right.
     
  10. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Funny enough, I think the best way to run dual subs is disguised as coffee tables on either side of your comfy couch.

    Or... get more subs and run them as a line array. Fewer room modes that way. :punk:
     
  11. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Phased array is one way of doing it with multiple subs. The problem is that many people read the Harman multisub paper and think that multiple subs will magically increase sub-bass flatness across the room. With multiples you get more potential SPL and more degrees of freedom. My stereo sub setup took 5h to tune via SMAART.
     
  12. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    No question stereo subs are much more difficult to set up properly than just one, but it is worth the effort IMO, and only becomes more and more so as the crossover frequency increases to fill in for speakers lacking bass of their own.
     
  13. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    It's an interesting question on twin subs. Positioning subs near the speakers have benefits and disadvantages. You can cross higher/gentler as everything that can cause audible subwoofer detection becomes a non-issue. At the same time you lose one of the main separate sub benefit - positioning flexibility. Electronic bass management becomes more important as you can't really do the "sub crawl" to find the best spot for it.

    Then there's the question of stereo sub-bass. My system is wired for 2 channel sub-bass, however logically it's more of a gimmick than anything else. Our ears are incapable of detecting sub-bass directionality (I mean the sub essentially just changes air pressure in your room) and 95% of recordings will mono low end. There are almost no facilities out there where you can reliably monitor stereo sub-bass (besides headphones, that is). Also by running the low end mono you get twice the woofer real estate to work that bass. With that said, there are recording where low end is stereo and some people will swear that they hear the difference between mono and stereo subs. My explanation is quite underwhelming - running sub-bass from a single side vs both will excite the room differently, hence the sound will be different.

    P.S. I haven't really seen many cases where subs enhance speaker bass. Wimpy bass cannot be fixed by subs and most subwoofer drivers will not like playing much over 100Hz.
     
  14. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    An easy way to check is to simply turn off the speaker amps. I switch off my Vidars and listen to a recording with only the subs. The first impression is, they don't really do much, even at high listening volumes they are not working very hard, but they make a lot of bass. Aside from that, it lets you more easily spot tracks where the bass is clearly stereo. Even though you may not hear it directly from the sub, you can still tell which side of the room it originates from, especially when it pans from one side to the other.
     
  15. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    Had to step out before I finished my last post.

    If you listen without the main speakers of course there is not really any music - no voices, and only the lowest octaves of a handful of instruments. It is hard to even recognize the songs that are playing. Still possible to recognize stereo signals though.

    I particularly like concept music - Pink Floyd, Marillion, Alan Parsons, Genesis, etc. Such music typically has a lot of synths (which can go very low) and other effects. My Maggies work down to about 50Hz and the subs take over below that. There are definitely instruments that can go lower than my speakers - bass guitars, pianos, and especially synthesizers. (A kind of general chart is here https://blog.landr.com/eq-cheat-sheet/ ). I find the music most coherent when the source of the lower frequencies of a given instrument instrument is close to the source of their higher frequencies, even if not a well defined point source then at least timed to be in phase with the same channel. I don't think it is my imagination.

    This would probably be a good place to ask @Psalmanazar what the current accepted practice is in this regard. Are instruments that get down low mono-ed out at the low end of a mix, or are they typically mixed in stereo across their entire range? Curious to hear the opinion of someone who actually does this stuff.
     
  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Modern music is all over the place. Old music has the bass monoed for vinyl.
     
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  17. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    Thanks for the response, that makes sense, especially considering the mechanical channel separation characteristics of vinyl. WRT to older music I guess the better question is whether that is typically done at the mixing or the mastering phase, or is that pretty much a variable thing as well?
     
  18. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Low end content channel separation strictly is a mixing thing, however it wouldn't be uncommon for the mastering engineer doing the vinyl master ask to mono it. As I said previously - it makes sense to mono LF stuff even now as you get twice the woofer to play your fat 808. For EDM and stuff played at clubs, it's even more simple - most of the PA systems will be all mono anyway.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe one can pretty reliably discern sub-bass stereo effects, however it's not due to what's on the recording, rather it's due to everything else. 2nd and 3rd harmonics for 50Hz will be 100Hz and above, subwoofer port and suspension noise will betray its location and most of all - each sub will load the room differently, hence the stereo pan will have a sweeping effect.
     
  19. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Timing. It is still important for sub to main crossing to be aligned. It will have no chance sounding one with the speaker without. Never mind that most subs use questionable Class-D and the timber quality is easy to spot being different to the amp that powers mains, which still today will be most cases variation of bipolar Class-A / AB.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
  20. Johnny Opps

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    So if I have a choice of getting 2 * Rel T9/x or 2 * Rythmik F12G for the same price (to integrate with my Vidar Monoblocks powering KLH Model 5's (acoustic suspension), which do you think I should do? I've heard the Rel's, and they're not sub-bass monsters, but I do buy that they seem to disappear better. That said, going back to my origiinal quesiton, it's an ENORMOUS room, and I do not have the ok to put any more than 2 white boxes in, and I have limited placement options. Thanks.
     

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