General Speaker Advice and Recommendations

I got a Vifa Stockholm 2.0 soundbar off ebay last year for around $600. It's bigger than your typical soundbar, but it sounds good, great modern aesthetics that my wife enjoys, easy to set up and wifi/bluetooth connectivity is a huge plus as well.

 

Thought I would throw this one out to see if anyone might have insights I don't.

I'd like to upgrade the speakers in my living room, for both TV and music. I currently have a pair of Edifier r1700bt, and while there's nothing "wrong" with them per se (they actually sound pretty good, better than they have any right to given the price), I'd like to get something more serious.

I'd like to get passive speakers and I'll pick the amp based on what might work best for the speakers I chose (since I'll be buying that too) but I want solid state there because I don't want to deal with tubes here. Budget: under $1.5k max, preferably more like $1k, happy to buy used.

Here's the tricky part: given my cramped living room and the fact that I have little kids running around, they need to fit on the shelves on either side of the TV. The shelf they would go on is about 11.8 inches each (about 300mm), so I need speakers that are either that small or smaller, or can be turned on their side. And they need to sound decent on shelves against a wall (though the shelves are open, ie. they aren't boxes, just planks on rails, for whatever that's worth).

The ears of the listener would be about 12 ft from the speakers.

If I were to use a subwoofer it would have to go on a shelf too, and I'm not sure that would work (I can experiment with the subs in my office there and see if they rattle the shelves too much). The shelves are loaded up with books though, so they're not going to vibrate a huge amount (theoretically). Still, in case the subs don't work I'd like speakers with halfway decent bass extension, down to let's say 45hz at least.

I tend to like a little darker, mid-centric speakers and headphones (my favorite headphones are Atriums, and my second favorite are HD6XX), but I can work with a more neutral sound signature, maybe applying a little EQ if I need to (the Edifiers are pretty neutral but have tone controls which is nice), as long as the speakers aren't painfully bright. Klipsch is not my bag. I care more about tonality and timbre than about something being super detailed and resolving.

The obvious choice I've settled on are the Kef LS50 Metas, since they can go near the wall with the rear port plugged, might fit vertically but even if they don't the concentric driver means they can be put on their sides without trouble. And they're basically universally acclaimed. (The fact that they look nice doesn't hurt either.)

Another option would be single driver speakers like the Omega Super 7s, but I've heard those are very aggressive sounding and might not be to my taste? Also they're rear ported. Though this would probably save on amplification, since the LS50 seem to like more power and the Super 7s could do with something like the Aegir.

Another option might be the ATC SCM7 speakers due to their size, but those don't seem to get the best reviews around here.

Any other options? Am I right to think the LS50 Metas are the natural fit here?

 

@Eric Rosenfield - You might also consider 3 way monitors in this style



I know you didn’t mention DIY but I’ve been looking at this Troels Gravesen speaker for awhile as something that I could use nearfield

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/BOOKSHELF-3WC.htm

From the description though it matches your needs perfectly. Designed to be pushed up against a wall, passive and fit on a bookshelf.

 

Could look at Vanatoo Transparent Zero or One Encores as well.

What if instead of doing small speakers on a shelf, you just wall mounted the TV and then wall mounted a nice soundbar or two speakers to the side of the TV. With those plus the grills, they’d be protected from curious hands and it may open up your options a bit. You sit pretty far from your speakers and you’re looking at options that have really small woofers.

I also don’t get why a subwoofer would need to be placed on a shelf if you add one. Is this because of your significant other’s decree or is there some other practical reason? A kid isn’t going to hurt a sealed subwoofer on the ground, and it would be more dangerous on a shelf I’d think.

 

There’s no room on the floor for a subwoofer. As I said, it’s cramped.

Wall-mounting won’t work because the TV is flanked by the bookshelves; there’s nowhere on the wall to mount them.

Vanatoos are powered, I would prefer passives. In any case would the Vanatoo Ones really be better than the LS50 Metas with a decent class AB amplifier?

These look amazing! But I have no ability to assemble anything, I’ve never used a soldering iron in my life.

 

this is interesting! Is it better to have larger speakers beneath the TV rather than smaller speakers on either side (for wider soundstage)? Also doesn’t having the drivers not vertical make their dispersion wrong? That’s why I was looking at coaxial and single-driver speakers.

 

It's generally ok if they are symmetrical, and you're sitting 12' back so dispersion should be fine.

 

Really? Oh, then I might be worrying about nothing and can get just any speaker I want as long as the width is smaller than 300mm (which is most bookshelf speakers)

 

Not exactly sure of your use case, I assume TV? I have been through a bunch of passive speakers and amp for TV over the years. And have had at least a handful with a powered sub. They work well and can sound great once you hone in on a sound signature you like. Full disclosure, never had a soundbar but cannot imagine how an array of little 2 inch speakers would sound very good. Kind of like the crappy sound you get from Bose micro cubes.

Please do not get an Aiyama, spend just a bit more and get something that sounds much better. I only had one $100 Aiyama and it sounded like ass.

 

From another reply it seems like you meant the 11" restriction to be for width, I have a similar taste for darker tilting stuff and for my desk speaker setup with similar restrictions like being near the rear wall I ended up getting the ascend sierra lx which I've been pretty happy with - they're not the most detailed thing in the world the way I have them set up, but they are a pretty fun/dynamic speaker that dig deep for their size and come with a 30 day trial period. I run them with a sub, but if you only need down to 45hz I don't think they strictly need it.

I've never understood the hype for the LS50 based on my experience with them - I've only gotten the chance to listen to the LS50 once at a friends house and I hated them, but they were the active version with an unfamiliar chain/room so I have always wanted to give them another fair shake some day with a better source chain. For context I mostly listen to rock, pop, and rap music though which I don't think the LS50 are particularly suited for and the sierra very much are, I think the coaxial driver just couldn't do what I wanted it to with those genres - maybe they sound better with different material.

 

@Eric Rosenfield, any chance you can share a picture of the space? Might help with recommendations.

To your point above re: sound signature, it seems like the LS50 Meta would be a bad fit if you like ZMF and the HD6XX. LS50 are midcentric in that they have little bass, but they have a metallic sound and I find them rather grating. Maybe the Meta version addresses some of this, but I’d lean more toward a soft dome + paper woofer if you’re looking for similar tonality. ATC could fit the bill, but need a ballsier amp.

 

I think what I need to do actually is try the sub with the Edifiers first and see if it works with the shelves and that will tell me what kind of frequency response I need to cover. The Sierra's only go down to 70hz when the rear port is sealed (this is going to be up against the wall) and the ATC SCM11s seem to need a sub as well.

If it's true I don't need to worry about laying a 2-way speaker sideways, I'm thinking now maybe I should go for something actually big-ish like the JBL L82 (which can be found used in my budget). I tried them once in the JBL store and liked them, but it was a while ago and I really need to go back and try them again because my memory of them is hazy. But they're front-ported, have a warm signature, and a literal treble knob on the front, which is almost unheard of in a passive speaker. And they look cool and have colored grills, so that's nice. But not completely sold on them as the best option.

 

Philharmonic Audio True Minis: 6" W X 7.5" D X 11" H.

I have the BMRs Monitors (which are huge, from my POV). I love them.

I heard the TMs at the recent CapFest. Playing the same song through each member of the family (TM, Ceramic Minis, HT Tower) sounded the same except for power and extension. Very impressive.

And cheap. I think you could get 3 and have seamless L/C/R and still have $ left over for a Vidar or other amp.

P.S. You might even have space for the Ceramic Minis.

 

45Hz from a small passive bookshelf speaker is really tough (e.g. LS50 Meta is -3dB @ 79Hz). Active speakers with built-in EQ will go lower. What are your maximum height/width/depth dimensions?

 

Yeah, I was told wanting small passives that went to 70Hz was a challenge. Personally, I've found 70Hz and a subwoofer to be the sweet spot.

 

Thanks! I clearly misread that LS50 Meta's stats.

See above for how I rethought things when someone suggested that putting a two-way speaker on its side wasn't that big a deal.

The space on the shelf is about 300mm H x 600mm W x 300mm D. Which is enough for a JBL L82, which I'm thinking about now, if I put it on its side. As I said above I'm going to experiment with the subwoofer first and see how it performs and that would help guide my decision.

It's true that achieving low bass is an advantage to active, DSP-adjusted speakers like the Vanatoo Ones someone suggested earlier.

 

If they go right against the wall you can port them much lower and get much more extension that way.

That's what I do with my LS50 Metas with the outer foams. Kinda-sorta-somewhat reaches 45Hz in my room.

Now if you could get a speaker as large as @Cspirou and @JK47 showed you can basically get full-range sound. Hathor is 40L externally and it's - 6dB at 35Hz, - 10dB at 20Hz anechoically, which translates to real 20Hz extension in-room. Distortion also isn't the worst. 9" woofer.

From the dimensions you've listed that's like 1.5 times as much volume as the Hathor! I don't think you'd need a sub at all.
Then again I've never been a fan of subwoofers of any kind. The integration never works as the group delay rises, etc.

 

What are you referring to when you say Hathor? You mean these things?
https://dstechlabs.com/SoundLab/Products/Hathor/index.html

Those seem to have retailed for $30k before they were discontinued, a bit out of my stated price range…

 

Sorry, I should've been more specific. My own cardioid monitors...

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/diy-cardioid-monitors.13292/

My point was that it's plenty of space for kickass speakers.