General SUBwoofer Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by shotgunshane, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    In what you described miniDSP cannot high pass the speakers, miniDSP is not needed in the subwoofer chain, the subs have crossover setting. So with single RME DAC it would look like that
    Speakers path:
    RME DAC -> balanced analog line level -> balanced miniDSP with high pass filter ->power amp -> high level -> speakers
    Subwoofer path:
    RME DAC-> single-ended analog line level -> subwoofer
     
  2. Dr J

    Dr J Friend

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    OK, now I think I understood. It was the high pass for the speakers that was missing from the system. Sorry for not realising that earlier.

    Tricky.

    To get that, I cannot immediately think of any other option than this one:

    Source -> digital -> NanoDigi eq high pass -> digital -> RME DAC -> balanced analog line level ->power amp -> high level -> speakers

    Subwoofer path:
    Source -> digital -> NanoDigi eq for SWRF -> digital -> another DAC-> analog line level -> subwoofer

    without replacing the DAC in the center with something else that has the same capability as the MiniDSP boxes in terms of filters and cross-overs. Or adding a pre-amp that has analog cross-over/EQ capabilities and splits the signal to multple outputs. E.g.some Parasound model has something like that as far as I recall.

    Based on a quick glance, the NanoDigi also supports EQing the digital input differently for the different digital ouputs and splitting the output to multiple outputs, and cross-overs.

    I have been hoping that Schiit would release a high end balanced Loki with parametric eq, would work here also. But no information suggesting that would happen.

    Just to check: Were you looking to use the high pass for better integrating the SWFR and speaker, or for removing the lower frequencies from the speakers so that they possibly have a better sound as they do not need to reproduce those?
     
  3. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    Both actually, and I pretty much abandoned that idea taking into account that
    - i's t either going to be pretty complex or
    - will require multiple DA/AD conversion in the path
     
  4. Dr J

    Dr J Friend

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    Understandable. I asked because the first you can typically get done acceptably without a specific high pass filter for the speakres using the subwoofer cross-over settings or by routing via the subwoofer and its high pass etc. The latter without using something for the high pass is obviously not achievable.

    Out of ideas at this point, I am afraid.

    I stumbled on this thread on room correction, it might have some additional ideas but all probably involve bigger changes to the equipment: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/digital-room-correction-drc-discussion.4772/
     
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  5. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    I only now understood what you where meaning when you asked about the HPF. It gets pretty complicated! Have you thought about using the miniDSP for the split between the HPF and LPF and do all EQ in there? Should make it bit easier to time-align the whole lot.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  6. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

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    As per pm with @wormcycle here is the setup i use:
    miniDSP SHD studio: source selection, crossover, preamp, dirac and streamer.
    Yggdrasil: connected to aes from the studio going to active speakers.
    NFB-2 dac: connected to spdif going to left and right subs.
    Crossover is set to 100hz (optimal for 10" subwoofer) using 24db and 48db slopes. I did not have to adjust time delay(distance in settings) since the speakers are stacked on top of the subs.

    There is a lot of flexibility to make this work with many setups. I found before this i blamed a bad crossover on placement, they are critical.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  7. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    Thank you. This is pretty nice high end setup, I guess the volume control is on miniDSP SHD studio. That what confused me, I did not know that a digital box could be used for volume control with two DACs.
    I think I will follow the same path, one difference could be that I may use miniDSP SHD which essentially is miniDSP Studio with a streamer, and a DAC. They added Roon endpoint just recently, which was important to me. As I do most of my listening still on headphones miniDSP SHD that should be more than good enough for two my channel.
    The setup would be:
    miniDSP SHD balanced XLR out -> Bryston 4BSST -> Totem Hawks
    miniDSP SHD SE RCA out -> two SVS 12" SB1000
    Longer term plan is to replace Bryston and Totem Hawks with Adam A7x
     
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  8. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

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    The only difference between the studio and non studio are the outputs, studio gets more digital and no analog outs. But yeah that setup should work great!
     
  9. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    Has anyone used RANE AC 23S Active Crossover?
    The only thing missing in my setup is that I would like to high pass Adam A7X monitors. I was planning to replace RME ADI-2 DAC with miniDSP SHD, still on backorder everywhere, but I like what I hear today and maybe I just should use active crossover? But I know nothing about those in general and RANE AC 23Sin particular. I did not want a digital crossover but this one seem to be purely analog.
    Any advice would be helpful
     
  10. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Did you already try the RME's built in high-pass?
     
  11. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    That's a a cheap PA crossover. THD spec at 0.02% doesn't look too promising. The SHD unit is your best bet.
     
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  12. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    I thought about it but the B1 high pass filter would in effect high pass the main speakers and the subwoofers. Adam A7X are connected to XLR out , two SVS SB1000 subwoofers to RCA on the same DAC. I guess I could compensate for that using the subs gain settings.
     
  13. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I don't remember, but can you set the EQ separately for the line and headphone outputs? If so, you can high pass to the Adams and low pass to your subs.
     
  14. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    And run the subs from the headphone output? That is something definitely worth trying? Thanks

    EDIT: unfortunately will not work, single DAC, single DSP
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  15. pechelman

    pechelman Acquaintance

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    As someone who has never considered a sub before, due to silly reasons, what would you all suggest for a small, fast, and musical sub to augment and support a set of single driver speakers in a 10x14 room? I know small and subwoofer are not ideal but I have a challenging space despite what those dimensions indicate.

    Right now thinking about something like a rel t5i or t7i mostly because they come up a lot and I'd be able to return them if this isn't for me. Was also considering the omega sub that would match my existing speakers but is a bit more of a commitment should I find it's not something I really like, or even worse, find out it's something where I want to add a second for a stereo pair.

    Anything else in particular that I might be able to find locally/used that would be decent enough to satisfy curiosity?
     
  16. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    The DAC can’t do different eq for hp and line outs. You need a 4-channel dac to do it, which is how I do it with the ADI-2 Pro.


    Rels are cool. Consider SVS as well.
     
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  17. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    Exactly right, just read it in the manual in the section about multiple simultaneous outputs. miniDSP SHD is a 4-channel DAC among other things. So it will replace RME ADI-2 DAC in my setup when I finally get it. Good to know that RME ADI-2 Pro would be an option as well.
     
  18. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    As @Hrodulf said, consider SVS as well, SVS SB1000 sealed sub packs 12 inch woofer in 13 inch box, bass is pretty tight, and it is not expensive.
     
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  19. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    I'd throw in Rythmik as well. Sounds better to me than comparable SVS. The servo tech supposedly helps with music.
     
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  20. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    Not sure if it belongs to the sub advice thread but I am just discovering the value of room measurements with REW and UMIK-1.
    Of course the less you know about the room acoustic and measurements the more you are likely to discover :). That's me.

    Trying for weeks to get my setup (Adam A7Xs, two SVS SB1000, RME ADI-2 DAC)) right, I gave up and was waiting on miniDSP SHD to help me"fix" it.
    What was wrong? It was either not enough bass or too boomy, the stereo image was a bit shifted to the left, the same time treble.. anyway it did not sound right.
    The first thing I did was to measure the range 20-200Hz and found some peaks in the range where the mains and subwoofer overlap, but it was easy to fix.
    At some point, just for fun, I did measure 20Hz to 10kHz left and right channel and applied the "Audio acoustic" smoothing REW and discovered a big suck out in the right channel between 5.5 Khz and 8kHz! RME has separate left and right channel equalizers so I just lowered the left channel at 6.6 kHz, -3 dB, Q= 0.5.

    Then I calibrated the subs and monitors again and spend the next two hours listening to my basic playlist.
    I could not believe the difference. I could increase the gain on the subs without making the bass boomy, the ribbon twitters were a bit less less offensive, and the center was in the right place. I am not 100% buying it yet, will do more listening tomorrow but this small upper mids and treble adjustment in the right channel did a lot of good.
     
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