General SUBwoofer Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by shotgunshane, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. pechelman

    pechelman Acquaintance

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    Thanks for the input again everyone. Spent way too much time looking over all the options. I was most tempted by the rythmik f12g or l12 but didn't want to have to worry about shelling out for return shipping if I found I didn't like it or a sub.

    The svs sb1000 was also appealing, big driver in a small cabinet, and free shipping both ways within the demo period.

    Ultimately it came down to finding a 3mo old rel t7i locally for almost the same as a t5i so I did that. Setup was painless even doing it alone.

    Everyone says that they wished they tried a sub sooner, but guess I'm not. How else would I have known exactly what I was missing. Forget the bass and low end, it's all about soundstage for me. Almost makes my setup seem shouty and super narrow without, which matches what most everyone else says. So far the rel is plenty punchy and able to keep up with single driver omegas based on a couple days off listening.

    I'll leave it there since I have nothing else to add. Wish I had a bigger listening area to consider a second sub but this will have to be it for now.
     
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  2. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    I am exploring an inexpensive solution for a passive high pass filter, for balanced connections to Adam A7X. I found three options:
    https://www.amazon.com/Shure-A15HP-High-Pass-Filter/dp/B00075VQRO - $96 per pair, difficult to get in Canada
    Marchand: https://www.marchandelec.com/xm46-pllxo.html - passive stereo high pass filter, $495 for stereo, fixed frequency
    And Hlabs, one of their FMODS https://www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/ $69 for a pair of balanced

    I have never used in-line filters, if you have any information on those units, or general comments on those type of filters, please respond.
     
  3. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

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    I considered those before i went with dsp. Don’t remember why i passed on it, i think it was something to do with a change in impedance that made it unfavorable and maybe the the slope of the roll off wasn’t ideal either. Either way interested in your findings.
     
  4. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    miniSHD was my first choice, I ordered it, but since then I talked to a friendly sound engineer and his advice was: your living room is hopeless, go cheap. I owned a pair of Harrison Labs XLR attenuators and they were pretty "invisible" so I will probably start with them.
     
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  5. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

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    Well Dirac is pretty powerful. As for your room perhaps you should consider where the advice is coming from, a sound engineer is probably very critical of acoustics. Then again you probably are as well hehe. Anyways looking forward to your impressions :)
     
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  6. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Hold your horses. Try out Dirac and then see whether you need anything else.
     
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  7. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    Thank you, what a great advice it was. I got miniDSP SHD unit, tried very basic crossover setup and even though I do not believe my measurements for the Dirac filters were entirely correct, the initial results are significant, stereo image and bass management are already at a different level.
    I posted something in the DAC Talk II but there seems to be very little interest here in the miniDSP SHD devices, or Dirac in general.
     
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  8. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

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    Glad you’re enjoying it! I guess there might be some audio nervosa at play, the whole bit perfect thing. But as long as you like it who cares...
     
  9. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    Prior to purchasing a sub with speaker-level inputs (SVS SB-1000), I ran RCA cables from my pre-amp (OG Freya) to the sub's line-level inputs. It worked well, and I was satisfied. I read somewhere (could have been an audio forum or it could have been the REL or SVS website) that it was "preferable" to use the speaker-level inputs. My amp (Rotel RB-1582 MkII) has 2 pairs of L/R speaker inputs (in theory I could power 2 sets of speakers at one time), so I figured I'd give it a try.

    I made sure I listened to the system for about an hour ("Rubber Soul" is my main test disc, and a few select songs off the PC also get used - typically bass-heavy tracks) prior to making the switch. Once the switch was made, I noticed the output from the sub was noticeably louder than before. Not to the point where the sub's volume was overpowering everything else, but louder to the point where I didn't like it. It didn't "disappear" into the music - not seamless, so to speak.

    I went ahead and dialed down the volume. I made a few adjustments to try and get it right, but I just couldn't quite get it to sound right. It really sounded as though I was obviously running a sub and two bookshelf speakers (Dynaudio Evoke 10, FWIW). Prior to the change, speakers and sub really meshed well together.

    Next, I decided to fiddle with the crossover freq. I dialed it down to the lowest (50Hz) and listened to my test tracks. I had to go back and forth several times and make adjustments - the sub's adjustment knobs are "stepped (is that the right term?)," so it made it easy to know where I was going and where I had been (unlike my Klipsch sub, which I now find annoying). I finally ended up getting the sub and speakers to generate a beautiful, seamless presentation.

    So, how bold were the adjustments? When all was said and done, I had dialed both volume and crossover down 4 and 3 "clicks" respectively. My volume had been at almost 12 o'clock (one click away), and my crossover had been about 100Hz. After the change, volume is closer to 10:30, while crossover sits right at 80Hz.

    So much for the "objective" changes... what about subjective changes?

    Well, the SVS SB-1000 is a good sub for music in a relatively small room. From what I've read (and this was news to a n00b like me), sealed subs generally generate a "tighter" more "musical" bass, while ported subs can really drop the hammer on movie special effects - but at the cost of some "tightness" and "musicality." My old Polk sub was ported, and it wasn't what I call refined or musical, so maybe there's something to this. Or, maybe my old Polk just sucked ass, and the SVS is better.

    Anyway... once I got things dialed in, I thought bass sounded a bit tighter and cleaner, but I couldn't be sure. I do like what I hear after the change, but I'm not sure if it was due to the sub being fed by speaker outputs, the fine tuning I was able to do to the volume and the crossover, or if there was some unidentified factor driving perceived subjective changes.

    I can state that the change/improvement was much more subtle than switching to the SVS SB-1000 from a Klipsch Reference R-110SW. The improvement from that change was immediately obvious. The SVS sub was much tighter and cleaner sounding than the Klipsch and it was easier to integrate. I've got the Klipsch in a second system now, and it took a while to get it integrated. I finally did get it where it needs to be, and it seems to work better with the Polk Audio RT25i speakers than it did with the Evoke 10 (all subjective). I know I've got the crossover on the Klipsch dialed up much higher with the RT25i than I ever did with the Evoke 10.

    Based on my experience, if one has a sub with speaker-level inputs, and an amp with the outputs to feed the sub, I think it is worth trying - if you aren't already doing so - DOH!! :) For one, it could yield positive subjective results. For another, it frees up an "out" on the pre-amp (for me), and now I can run that freed up output to my headphone amp (I'm thinking of switching from OG Freya to a pre-amp with one less output, so this became a consideration).
     
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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  10. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    I’ve got this badass Khozmo preamp which has 2 dual 3 pin XLR outputs designed to drive dual mono amps. But I’m only using one of them to drive my powered monitors. Is this a good way to hook up a rhythmic L-12?

    [​IMG]

    How would I hook up the dual XLR to the L R RCA inputs in the L-12 in the right way? Is a couple XLR > RCA cables safe in this situation? Do I need to use an iso max to safely convert the balanced signal?

    Thank you for any advice.
     
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  11. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Use the iso-max or some other cheap transformer because who cares when you're feeding a sub. If you use the xlr>rca cable, you'll wind up grounding the negative (pin3) on both outputs which you don't want.

    Or open up the XLR side of the converter cable and snip the connection between pin 1 and 3. That will *probably* work as a cheap fix.
     
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  12. ogodei

    ogodei Headphone Heaven Gatekeeper

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    ...or XLR into RCA into a wireless solution. The more recent ones for subs are quite satisfactory.
     
  13. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    More stuff to buy!
     
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  14. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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  15. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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  16. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    Rhythmic L-12 in the house! As well as the transformer based converter @Armaegis recommend and cables from blue jeans. The L-12 is about twice as big as I was expecting. I will have to put it to the left of the left speaker instead of in the middle of them as planned. But apparently that will be ok from everything ive read.

    I also realized that I’m using my speakers as a neutral reference for my modded orthos and they are a well known reference in this room right now. So I can’t hook up the L-12 yet as it just has a volume knob and I could easily go bonkers with it. DSP would be cool but not sure I can handle that now.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Enjoy the L12! Mine has been stuck in the office since lockdowns began last spring. The setup guide Rhythmik provided is very helpful and includes recommended starting points for phase settings depending on the type of speakers you'll be using the subwoofer with.
     
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  18. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    Thinking about adding a subwoofer to my stereo. Looking at the SVS SB-1000 pro, but I'm open to other options in the $500 price range.

    Stereo setup:
    - KEF Reference Model Three (1994)
    - Emotiva A-150
    - Emotiva PT-100
     
  19. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    SVS, HSU and Rythmic are the value champions in the sub game. The SB-1000 is a decent choice, I'd plan to add a second one later.
     
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  20. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

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    Two smaller ones always better than one big one unless you're extremely lucky with your room(buy a lottery ticket).
     

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