Life after Yggdrasil: Watering the Ash

That's a nice write-up!

Do you think it make sense to add a link (or links) from the "LaY" thread to your NOS comparison?

 

@Torq hey did you post something about the Klimax DSM somewhere? I went from pre Katalyst DS to Yggdrasil and I couldn't hear much difference with the Katalyst upgrade.
I felt Yggdrasil was a big step up, except for in price
Would love to hear your thoughts. Sorry if this is off topic.

 

It's not off-topic at all.

The original thread has my original impressions/comparisons to the pre-Katalyst Linn DS/DSM stuff. The updated versions of that should make it to this thread sometime this week (Tuesday evening with a bit of luck).

The new Katalyst stuff will probably be included, at a very high level, as part of that. There's some additional stuff pending there that will take longer (for a variety of reasons). Not going to tip my hat on the specifics until that's properly written-up ...

 

@Torq A couple of suggestions for your consideration. Please feel free to accept or reject as you see fit

Vinshine Audio DAC-R2R-REF (I think you are on the loaner tour for this one)

Crane Song Solaris (A pro DAC using an AKM chip, using a 211 kHz / 32-Bit "Quantum" D/A Converter) There is a whole thread "Dangerous Convert-2 vs Crane Song Solaris" over at gearslutz, some people prefer it over the Convert-2.

From the manual:

Looks like you're going to be busy for a very long time listening to all these DACs!

 

I dropped out of the loaner tour as a) I thought it was an imminent thing, and no updates were forthcoming on when the thing might actually be available and b) only two of us had expressed any interest in participating in the tour (didn't exactly scream "lots of interest").

In the event that @alvin1118 wants to make it practical to audition, I'm still willing to listen to it, but that's going to depend on coherent and predictable timing and, at least as importantly, I'm not getting involved in shipping big, heavy, packages internationally - at least when I am not looking at it as something I am likely to buy myself.

I'll stick it on the provisional list and we'll see what it takes to actually arrange a demo/loan/audition unit.

Like most products in this realm, the manuals and "technical specs" are more useful for having a giggle over than they are for discerning much else. On the upside I generally don't let such twatwaffle sway my listening impressions since I pretty much universally assume that anyone trying to sell me anything is talking bollocks anyway.

 

OK, I look forward to that. For HP listening one Klimax DS to an upgraded one was no mind boggling experience for me, but very expensive. I see and acknowledge that Exakt features etc might be valuable to the user group but as a DAC it didn't tickle me too much. But. I very much look forward to your impressions.

Thanks for all the hard work put into this, it's a great source for learning.

 

The Exakt stuff is interesting - and my main speaker rig runs on that right now.

Until they're shipping the Katalyst updated-modules in either the Exakt speaker modules/stands and/or the Exaktboxes it isn't relevant to Exakt though (since the DAC in the DS or DSM units isn't used in any Exakt configuration).

 

Hi Torq! Will you consider one or either Rockna Dac?

I have very good impressions of the first model (the single ended one with the two MSB modules, the later ones use proprietary sign magnitude modules which i haven't gotten the chance to audition) and although being the base model managed (and still manages) to sound better than some (at least the ones we got to A/B including the Nagra) of the dacs in your list (including the Yggdrasil which in comparison was a bit metallic and less refined in the higher registers).

 

I only see one DAC on their main site ... the "Wavedream DAC" ... if you have links to other's I can consider them. I'll add the Wavedream DAC to the provisional list, but I had it on the original thread as well and gave up trying to get a unit for audition so it got dropped.

If you have a responsive contact for Rockna in the US that'd help ...

 

Unfortunately i am in Greece and i don't know any dealers in the US.

From the manufacturers site in US:

AUDIOPRANA LLC

• 69 Boston Ave Medford, Massachusetts 02155-3521 United States
• Tel.: 617 669 3275
• [email protected]

They can send you one or steer you in the direction of a nearby dealer.

Or alternatively you can contact them directly in Romania (maybe better).

Yes the Rockna Wavedream.

The original 3 models had MSB modules. One single ended with 2 signature msb modulesand two balanced models with quad signature and quad platinum msb modules. Those are not manufactured any more, and they are getting very scarce to find second hand. I am looking to buy the single ended one if a find it in decent condition and price. It has slaughtered all other dacs we put next to it.

The new current models have their own ladder modules as well as their own output stage. A friend has bought one recently but i haven't had the chance to listen to the new one.

The older single ended one ( i haven't heard the balanced models but judging form the single ended one they must be even better) is absolutely superb and for the price an absolute steal (in hiend terms).

This is no surprise as the designer (and proprietor of Rockna) is behind the programming of FPGA in MSB dacs and other hiend dac manufacturers.

I think your list of dacs should definitely include this gem.

 

Yep, that's who I tried to work through previously ... did not work out so well. We'll see how it goes this time. I'm not shipping stuff in from Europe from this unless the manufacturer is handling all the logistics and costs though. I might audition some of it while I'm actually in Europe (I did that with some units on the original cycle), but this puts a serious crimp on how much time I get with those units (well, unless they belong to a friend).

 

Chord †

I’m going to tackle the Chord DACs as a family, partly because they are and partly because that’s how I originally got to audition them.

My first round of auditions with these units has since been supplanted with some additional listening time with a couple of them and in the case of the Mojo almost an additional year of owning the unit. It is worth noting that there have been some definite changes from my first auditions to where and how I rate and regard these things today.

I have also run into significant, and currently unresolved, drop-out issues using these DACs with more recent OS X/mac OS versions when trying to play DSD128 or DSD256 content. The TL;DR; for this issue is that you need to do some research before you buy one of these DACs to play multi-rate DSD (native, or up-sampled-on-the-fly) from a Mac running El Capitan or Sierra; details are in the spoiler.

Spoiler: Multi-rate DSD Drop-Out Issues

As the first properly DSD-capable DAC I owned (I’m not counting the ALO Audio International+ Optical Edition), the Mojo was where I started exploring DSD. I had no DSD content, beyond demo files, at the time, and naturally I figured if I was going to play with it, I might as well get the “best” sources possible. This meant DSD256 (4x) and DSD128 (2x), in addition to the more widely available DSD64 files.

I immediately ran into problems here with consistent drop-outs in play back.

A lot of trouble-shooting ensued. The result of which showed that at least half, and probably more, of the problem seems to be on Chord’s side of things (either their USB implementation or their muting behavior). While it is exacerbated on Macs running El Capitan or later versions of OS X/mac OS, the problem is by no means limited to Apple hardware or operating systems. I have run into the same issues using a loaded Dell 7600 series workstation as well as on various Microsoft Surface 3 Pro/4 Pro machines all running current versions of Windows (and the Chord ASIO driver, of course). The issue with the Microsoft Surface Machines has also been reported by my local dealer.

Attempting to get support on this, first from a couple of Chord dealers and then, ultimately, after a lot of screwing around (I eventually had to go via a Marketing contact to get any response) trying to find someone to actually talk to, directly with Chord, was an utter farce.

Rather than taking the issue seriously, I got fobbed off with long-winded half-assed technical descriptions of “Why your computer is the problem and it is because it isn’t fast enough to handle high-rate DSD.” This was flying in the face of providing detailed information showing that this was not, in fact, the case at all.

The computers in use were way more powerful than most people will use and at the time constituted essentially the fastest machines you could buy, pre-built, from any major manufacturer. We’re not talking half-assed Best-Buy Windows Laptop specials here … this is 12-24 core hardware, upwards of 128 GB of RAM and all SSD storage). They were also running fresh OS install and NO OTHER SOFTWARE beyond the audio player.

Moreover, I had (and have) no problems playing this content, completely drop-out free, from the same machines (and also on much lower-spec hardware as it happens … my little 12” Retina Mac Book handles DSD256 just fine into any number of devices) feeding an Auralic Vega, PS Audio Direct Stream Junior, iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, Holo Audio Spring DAC and others. So the notion that my “computer isn’t up to it” is just complete nonsense. On top of which, there’s no overhead beyond the load on the USB subsystem and IO for native DSD files … CPU grunt shouldn’t enter into it.

It’s worth noting that this inability to get coherent support, much less a resolution, to these issues was a significant factor in my decision to pass on buying a DAVE.

Mojo (-) (*) †

My original impressions of Chord’s Mojo are quite a bit different to where they were when I was first listening to the unit. Originally I considered it to be something that performed well above its price point and was something that I would have recommended without any reservations.

More time with the unit (over a year now), has me viewing the thing more critically, absent “new toy” syndrome, and with a lot more listening to comparable units (portable and not) has, for want of a better phrase, “knocked it down a peg or two”.

It is, still, quite a flexible little device, with multiple input options and enough power to drive a good number of full-size headphones without issue. But it has some issues in use, as well as having fallen down a couple or three notches in terms of how I feel about its audible performance.

I have found, for example, that the Mojo is extremely sensitive to the quality of its USB input. While fundamentally immune to jitter issues here (as USB 2.0 Async DACs should typically be), a noisy USB output wreaks havoc with the sound and seems to result in a brittle and/or hard presentation. If at all possible, drive it via COAX or TOSLINK … or be ready to deal with all the quasi-technical-nervosa around USB de-crapification*.

Then there is its susceptibility to EMI, which is seemingly higher than any other unit I’ve used in the last year or so. This is something to bear in mind if you’re going to use it with a phone as your source. While switching your phone to “Airplane” mode will take care of this, as will using a longer-than-makes-sense cable and keeping the devices a couple of feet apart, it’s an odd issue for a portably-focused device to exhibit. Particularly when other units I’ve tested showed no such issues. To be fair, this will be more, or less, of an issue depending on your carrier and which radio bands your phone is operating on, but it’s something to be aware of if you’re looking at this for use with your phone.

As a desktop DAC it’s a bit of a pain in the arse; its diminutive size and triple-cable arrangement can make it fiddly to keep in one spot. And the charging behavior is less than ideal for dedicated desktop use, particularly if you get one of the units that likes to whine, audible, while it is charging. This was supposed to have been fixed very early on, but is still occurring with new units per various user reports in the relevant thread on Head-Fi.

Sonically …

The generally warmer, softer, presentation than the Schiit multi-bit DACs was something I initially heard as “smoothness”. It can be too much that way at times. There is also a definite lack of air and space to the upper end. I am not talking about in terms of imaging and soundstage, which is actually one of Mojo’s (and, indeed, all of the current Chord DACs I’ve heard) strong points. It’s not Yggdrasil level … but it’s a bit ahead of Modi MB from a staging perspective.

Bass fails to satisfy with anything but the most bass-centric IEMs or cans, with or without a beefy amp in the chain, lacking slam and drive in the lowest registers compared to the Schiit units. And dynamics also take a back seat to Yggdrasil … and everything else in that lineup all the way down to Modi MB, again.

With Modi MB I get a slightly veiled result when compared to, say, Bifrost MB and definitely so compared to Yggdrasil. Mojo manages slightly better transparency here than the little Schiit, but this is really only apparent when Chord’s device is fed via a good COAX feed.

This is no longer a unit that, for pure-desktop DAC duty, I would recommend. Never mind comparing this to Yggdrasil … Schiit’s Modi MB is more convincing and plays more to my preferences, as does the GOV2+ Infinity and the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label.

For portable or transportable use, it’s not a bad device and is still among the best sounding portable DAC/amp units I’ve heard that can work cleanly (e.g. without needing special hubs or other weirdness) with an iPhone and a decent variety of headphones, but I don’t consider it to be “the second coming” or a “giant killer” anymore. Though I expect if a “Mojo2” came along, and fixed some of the issues here, and at a slightly better price, I’d give it a try.

The iFi Micro iDSD Black Label is a slightly more enjoyable listen, and a much more flexible device, but whether it’s a better bet for any individual depends on their feature needs and size/weight sensitivity. And more details comparisons to that unit, and to the little Modi MB, can be found in the “Easily Lost: ‘Portable’ DAC/amp Comparisons” thread.

Note that the price of Mojo has dropped recently, which helps a bit on the value side of things, though it’d be an even more convincing deal at $400 vs. the current $529.

And, finally, I recently sold my Mojo … it had fallen out of use for various reasons (largely growing dissatisfaction with sound and having had enough of the ergonomics for portable use).

Hugo (-) †

The Hugo has a somewhat brighter signature than the Mojo. Or, perhaps, it might be more correct to say that the Mojo has a slightly fleshier presentation, than the Hugo, as I wouldn’t, generally, describe Hugo as being “bright”. I do not hear the same, apparent, roll-off, at the frequency extremes with the Hugo that I did with the Mojo. In fact, while a leaner overall rendering, Hugo has better low-end extension … albeit it is portrayed with less presence and impact than its smaller brother.

So, extension is seemingly better even if it seems like the low-end is de-emphasized. You can adjust this much more readily with EQ for Hugo and the results are more convincing than attempting the same thing with a Mojo, but it’s still shy of anything the Schiit MB DACs will deliver there.

Driving sensitive IEMs directly I get more hiss from the Hugo than from the Mojo (I didn’t do this test for all DACs, but since it’s a portable device I tried it with my SE846 for good measure), though hiss-levels are so low on the Mojo that I have to listen for it.

Hugo might be interesting for transportable use but the fact that it’s so much larger than the Mojo, and cannot be charged from USB, pretty much renders it impractical as a portable for me.

Compared to Yggdrasil, Hugo just falls flat. While it is not far off in terms of detail, I felt the Hugo lacked weight to its presentation and just doesn’t stand up well to “Moffat Bass”. With some sharper female vocals, the Hugo felt a bit less comfortable than Yggdrasil, bordering on sibilant at times. I also preferred Yggdrasil’s rendering of piano and brass and found Schiit’s unit to readily engage me in the music, whereas Hugo struggled on that count and wound up sounding more clinical (which is not the same as analytical).

Yggdrasil, for me, betters the Hugo in terms of tone, detail, attack, overall balance and musicality though I’d say they are extremely close from an imaging/soundstage perspective. And Yggdrasil is all over the Hugo when it comes to dynamics and slam.

I personally prefer the signature of Mojo to Hugo, though I’d say Hugo outperforms Mojo overall – at least on technical grounds … something which has been iterated by many users that have experience with both units. And it is interesting to note, for me at least, that Hugo2 incorporates options to allow the user to get a more Mojo-like signature/presentation.

Of note, I did not experience the same EMI issues with Hugo that I had with Mojo, though I’ve got over a year with Mojo and only a briefer audition period with Hugo. Also, they seem similarly sensitive to the quality of their USB feeds … both units benefit from something like Schiit’s Wyrd*.

2Qute (-) †

Sonically, I could discern no difference between this and Hugo. I’m not sure that is particularly surprising as the core of the units are the same, excepting:

• Where Hugo runs off batteries, 2Qute gets its juice from an external SMPS.
• The 2Qute adds galvanic isolation of its USB input.

Given the sensitivity to USB quality that both Mojo and Hugo exhibit, it’s entirely possible that the 2Qute turns in a better sonic performance, with none of the treble-nastiness that seems apparent on a noisy feed with the two portable units, when fed via USB. However, my testing was not focused on USB and I did not try this back to back.

Aesthetically … I could say it doesn’t work for me. Instead I’ll say that it’s plain, compact, and obviously called in sick the day the DAVE was styled** … as despite a similar overall flat-lozenge design it avoided all the detailing and protuberances that make DAVE’s appearance such a Marmite thing. The only real problem there being that while I love Marmite, the general styling of Chord’s products makes me want to put a bag on their “head”.

As with Hugo, I prefer the signature of Mojo over 2Qute.

Hugo TT (-) †

A little more air to the presentation than it siblings, and a bottom end that seems more like Mojo than Hugo, while actually resolving more detail than Mojo, particularly in the upper registers, but not apparent on every recording by any means.

I think Yggdrasil beats this in most categories, though the Hugo TT yielded a slightly more palpable 3D soundstage and in some cases had a tad more air to the rendering. If they were the same price, I’d still take Yggdrasil over Hugo TT, but since Hugo TT is the same price as an Yggdrasil PLUS a Ragnarok, and the Schiit combination is much more enjoyable, it makes Yggdrasil’s value and raw performance even more obvious and makes it easy to pick Yggdrasil as a better unit overall.

Bear in mind that Hugo TT doesn’t sit that well in the middle of a rack (it’ll work, but it makes it fiddlier to see what’s going on and to operate directly).

DAVE (+) †

At the time I did my first serious audition with Chord’s DAVE it was, I thought, the best reproduction of digital music I’d personally heard.

I cannot say that anymore.

While I still consider it to be an excellent DAC, albeit with a highly tenuous value proposition (read “comically overpriced”), and, at least of this update (3/7/17) in the top three DACs I’ve heard so far, it has lost its crown and, indeed, based upon some additional time with it, lost a few points in other areas as well.

Originally, I felt that DAVE was just slightly (and I do mean slightly) better than Yggdrasil - but was so across the board. Even from that original position, we’re talking in terms of specific technicalities where if DAVE scored a perfect 100, Yggdrasil was coming in between 95 and 97 or 98. Some time away from both units, and listening to something of a totally different nature, has, upon my return to the “familiar” shifted things around a bit. Or, in other words, this comment from my original audition write-up, is no longer accurate:

“On every individual measure, it pulls ahead of Yggdrasil. In some areas more than others, but I didn’t find any point of my evaluation where the check-mark went in the Schiit DAC’s column.”​

Today, and again with the benefit of a break in my listening and more time with the unit in more familiar surroundings, things even up some and Yggdrasil pulls even or ahead in some areas.

So … to specifics … and to some commentary that still stands and doesn’t need much alteration …

With DAVE, and the music it ably reproduces, I did not want to stop listening, and wound up indulging in quite a bit more than my normal audition play list. Exploring everything from acapella vocals, and being enchanted not just by the tone but the incredible sense of air and space in the presentation, to complex, layered, orchestral work and being able to pick seemingly any individual instrument (not just section, or row) and follow it. Yggdrasil gets really close on this last point as well, so do the Linn units oddly enough, but it’s a little harder to focus on the individual.

Timbre was, as far as I can tell, as close to perfect as I could ever evaluate. This is the only DAC I’ve heard that renders piano (a focus for me) as well as Yggdrasil. At least it’s the closest I’ve heard. Today I would say that Yggdrasil portrays violent percussive (hammers on “strings”) dynamics more convincingly with this instrument than DAVE. Tone is about even … not better … but it isn’t giving anything up there either. Otherwise there wasn’t anything in it.

Sound-stage/imaging was out of this world, both with headphones and, especially, with speakers.

With Yggdrasil, and the right recording (especially some of my own), I’ve gotten quite accustomed to being able to hear the change in location of a note played on the piano based on where it emanates from in the soundstage. In other words, you can very easily perceive the left-to-right transition as an ascending passage is played across the keyboard. DAVE actually managed this even more vividly, which surprised me. This certainly wasn’t as apparent with any of the other Chord units, and it was something I didn’t really get from any other DAC.

Transparency and detail are extremely impressive, without seeming bright at all. There was no sense of exaggeration or artificiality to the detail, just oodles of information presented in a natural and un-emphasized fashion. I had the sense that more detail was being rendered than with Yggdrasil. Not much more. And not in everything. But, for example, the bounce and taughtness of a drum-skin, and the decaying oscillation of a Timpani, were more subtle and nuanced than anything else I’ve heard – and it was possible to detect the sticks hitting different areas of that skin (spatially) … again with suitable recordings (it’s not going to be apparent with a common 7-mic setup except by change in sound).

Transients, attack, decay … are all magnificent, as is slam. Yggdrasil does those things incredibly well and this is one area in which I feel it’s necessary to reverse my previous position. I would now put DAVE just slightly behind here (again, we’re talking 100 vs. 95-98). These are tiny differences that take a lot of critical listening to detect.

Basslines, sub-bass, and the general low-registers offer more drive and a subjectively better foundation for some types of music. Running a couple of my bass-heavy tracks with both DACs, all level matched, into my speaker system, resulted in Yggdrasil’s rendition getting the room all excited (to the point of over-pressure), where with DAVE this didn’t happen. The net effect, with speakers or on headphones, is that my toes tap a bit more, and I feel more involved with stuff featuring prominent, tuneful, basslines with Schiit’s monster than with DAVE.

Pick your poison … this is horses for courses territory.

I could go on, item, by item, drawing comparisons, but I don’t feel the need to. DAVE was ahead overall, if only just, and remained able to grab me, engage me and involved me, in the music in a way that I found addictive, emotive, and nourishing … without devolving into the excessively technical or analytic. And that’s about as much as I can ask of any component.

Yggdrasil does this too … to be sure, and better than almost everything else … in fact with some music it’s clearly ahead … and it’s less that DAVE plays music, as such, meaningfully better than it just exhibits slight improvements on a technical/evaluative level in one or two extra places while STILL having that musical and emotive capacity. So, really, the best of both worlds …

It’s a superlative piece and something that, as I’ve said, I consider one of the top three DACs I ‘ve heard so far. That’s not everything, by any means. Preferences and musical biases could easily push any one of those units up or down enough to completely change the ordering.

I should note that, some speaker-specific stuff excepted, the areas in which DAVE pulls ahead are most evident when listening directly through the headphone output. You can’t do this with Yggdrasil, and when both are driving an external amplifier, the loss of transparency with DAVE is, while small, certainly noticeable. And while direct-output would, therefore be the “best” way to use DAVE, some headphones just seem to work better with an amp used in the chain … including the Abyss and the LCD-4.

I can still say, without further qualification, that as per my original post …

DAVE plays beautiful, detailed, nuanced, textured, flowing, sonorous, engaging, emotive music.

So that’s the sonic aspects of DAVE. But … there are things about this DAC that rub me entirely the wrong way. Actually, truth be told, they’re applicable pretty much across the Chord line, and particularly, something I ran into with the Hugo TT …

I consider the appearance, or aesthetics, of DAVE to be something of a “Marmite” thing. And, in my case, I don’t care for the look of the unit at all. It seems to aim for “futuristic” but, for me, winds up falling somewhere between fussy and fugly.

DAVE doesn’t sit well in the rack, either. If it’s not the top-most unit then the controls and display are not exactly easy to get at/read. I could space the shelves further apart, but that causes me other issues. And you could buy the stand, which tilts things forward some and makes it easier to interact with, but that’s more expensive than the DAC I’m comparing this too and is very off-putting on that basis.

It’s almost as if the thing was designed this way to promote sales of that stand. That’s how it feels to me, at least. And I don’t like that. I’d be less irritated by if the stand wasn’t so expensive (and I’m not buying that it makes any sonic difference … I’ve yet to hear, a benefit to such things with purely solid-state gear). Yes, yes, in theory, clocks are MEMS devices and subject to external vibration, but at $13,000*** you’d think if that was really a concern you’d deal with it as part of the basic package.

Of course that’s just me … your mileage may vary on all of these matters.

Acknowledging that this is one of the best DACs I’ve heard is easy. Convincing myself to actually buy one has proven a lot harder. In fact, in the original cycle, I was not able to do so. This thing is nearly six times the price of Yggdrasil, and between two and four times the price of the other units currently on my shortlist. That’s a big jump and the law of diminishing returns is in very full force here … the gains greater than the losses (if still individually they’re mostly relatively small), but not to the point where I’d care, or even notice, unless I was listening audition-style.

I’d also have to get past the aesthetics which are very polarizing for me. This would be in my main listening room, which is a very visually coherent space … and DAVE is distinctive enough that it’s going to stick out like a sore thumb (or wind up being less than ideal to actually use).

I think, the only scenario that I could justify switching from my current rig to DAVE would be:

• I could get one at a much more sensible price.
• I was extremely space limited.
• I was only using headphones with which I didn’t prefer to drive with an outboard amplifier.

Some recent developments mean that I am massively downsizing my living space (for all manner of entirely fun and progressive reasons). This means that space is going to be much more of a premium than my prior “multiple rigs in multiple homes” setups were.

And then, more and more of my listening time is with Focal’s Utopia, which while a bit more “Fun” out of my big-tube amp, do lose a little in raw transparency and purity driven that way. I don’t think my space constraints will result in my letting go of my TOTL cans, but if they did, that’d be an interesting change in criteria.

Finally there’s price … and at the moment, with a quick dash across the pond, I could bring a shiny new DAVE into my home for about $8,000. At this point, while still expensive, at least it’s not an entirely profane proposition (especially without having to keep an amp).

Yet, as things stand, I find no particular desire or drive to do so. And as long as I can run a full-stand in my main headphone rig, I don’t see DAVE replacing my Yggdrasil, let alone my Yggdrasil/Spring DAC combination.

--

* In general, nothing more than using a Schiit Wyrd was necessary to clean up the performance here. I found no particular benefit with more expensive/exotic devices.
**Possible euphemism for "viscously beaten with the ugly stick".
***It's possible, via VAT exceptions, lower native prices/exchange rate fuckery and a trip/friend abroad to get this down to a more reasonable level, best I've seen so far was $8,000 via the UK.

 

Added current prices (which might be a result of a "sale") and "official" prices to the units in the 2nd post.

Will include links to @Hands NOS DAC impressions/reviews for DACs in both "Done" and "Pending" lists in my next major update.

 

Thank you for the excellent Chord write ups! I was very tempted to get a Mojo when it was first announced, but never could pull the trigger. The more I hear of its idiosyncrasies, the more glad I am I never went that way. A portable DAC/amp that's significantly sensitive to EMI is fundamentally broken IMO.

As for the Dave, I could not imagine spending that much more than the Yggdrasil on a DAC, especially as my main use is for speakers and not headphones.

 

Well written @Torq , as always. For me the quote above says a lot. I like that you stay balanced in your reviews, yet strongly underlines, if I understand you correctly, the fact that beyond audition style listening most of us would want to enjoy our day-to-day listening at which we might not hear or care about the subtle differences. At that point the price jump becomes ridiculous. It's food for thought really. When the dust settles and I've spent all this money on what seemed to be an upgrade at audition, how obvious will the gains be? I would argue that they'd better be there every minute of every day if I've spent 2-4 times the cost of what I had before.

 

Someone I know once said "If you don't hear a difference within 10 seconds, chances are you're not going to miss it much."

 

Ah, yes, it's good to see this re-surface and completely understandable why it's here and not there.

JJ

 

General updates:

• I've added links to @Hands impressions/reviews for DACs in both the 2nd post (stuff I've auditioned) and the 3rd post (pending stuff ... since @Hands has heard lots of units that I haven't). If I've missed one, let me know (here is fine).

• I've added several of those DACs to my own audition list.

 

That is, essentially, what I'm saying. In some cases that comment is about specific technicalities. Hearing that, say, Yggdrasil sounds different to DAVE is not especially challenging. It's pinning down where, how and why ... and then determining which is either a) actually/technically better and b) just determining which you prefer, that is harder.

But, generally, if the unit is capable of involving you in a musical sense then most of that will tend not to matter too much until you actually start listening to the specifics vs. just enjoying the music. And the more easily a DAC can disappear and make me lose myself in that music the more I generally enjoy it. Similarly, the more a DAC calls attention to itself in specific areas, the more likely it is to bring me "out of the moment" ... which I can't consider a good thing.

So, again using Yggdrasil and DAVE as examples, both draw me in and get my emotions going. And as a result, it requires audition-style listening to discern differences between them (the differences are small and specific) as otherwise I'm just enjoying the track/album!