Massdrop: Search Your Feelings

Ah yes, I agree with that!
I was referring to the average Massdrop user who goes to the comment section to bitch/troll and the amp's price with relation to the wait time, not Massdrop itself as a business, but yes, some people is dumb.

 

Plus relatively recently Massdrop has started to offer in-stock drops. Which I noticed are priced higher. The O2, which is in-stock, is $95 whereas previous drops had it at $70.

They should probably do this more often to show the value they provide with group buys. Have a "buy it now" option for 30% more or join a GB where you wait a bit longer.

 

There's nothing evil about Massdrop, group buying is a whole different concept than crowdfunding and when drops have gone sideways in the past Massdrop has bent over backwards to make things right. They seem like a really good company.

 

Name something that no one has ever bitched about. No one, ever.

Why you hate lol. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

 

Speaking of Massdrop slow shipping. Ordered my hd6xx back in June with the expected shipping in mid-December. Massdrop shipped them on October 31st (1.5 months earlier).

 

C'mon
"Dumb" was for the kind people who Ultrabike was mentioning (those who would complain even if you give them 100$ for nothing)
I want to clarify because, english is not my first language, don't want to cause misunderstanding.

 

There are people bitching on the HD6xx thread that people who ordered after them are getting shipping notifications before them. Ignoring the fact that the whole drop is shipping over a month early. The logistics for managing tens of thousands of units across however many countries cannot be easy.

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To play devils advocate, I can think of a couple of areas where people had genuine gripes with Massdrop:

Over in the mechanical keyboard world, there was a recent argument about who owned IP to a newly created keyboard switch. My casual understanding of it was that MD owned the IP and the original developers wanted to sell it through Kickstarter. Massdrop stopped them. Other than that, I've seen prominent people over in the mech keyboard world say they'd never work with Massdrop, and others say that MD stifles creativity in keycap design by swamping the small market with repetitive safe and old designs.

Currently there's a drop running for a clone of the Antlion Modmic, which itself had been dropped many times. I cannot imagine that Antlion is any too pleased with this, and could see it being a worry to other manufacturers- run on Massdrop, if the product is sucessful and easy to replicate, and it could happen to you to.

Personally though, I'm happy with Massdrop. They've removed the biggest risks I've faced with privately run group buys and Kickstarter style campaigns.

 

@ultrabike It is uncalled for you guys to censor us like you did, some of the thing said there are important for people who are interested in buying the zdt jr to consider.

Nevertheless here are some of my issues with massdrop. Sorry if this reads like a rant, I have work to do today and don't have time to be eloquent. I have by no means presented all the things that irk me with massdrop but the 2 most important ones to me.

The first reason I dislike massdrop is because they treat communities like ours
like cattle they can herd and take away the person to person interaction our communities are built on.
They use marketing tricks like fear of missing and ambiguous language to convince you that saving a few
bucks(usually very few compared to other sources), is worth it in exchange for no return capability, a crappy warranty,
long waits, and poor costumer service. And I mean seriously poor customer service, if you haven't experienced dealing with
them look up some reviews online. Also, you are taking risk with a lot of products such as increased waits,
delayed shipping, faulty production, cut corners, an undisclosed cheaper version for massdrop marketed as the original
etc etc. Also, "customer service" "return capabilities" etc all have value, at least I am willing to pay a couple bucks for them.
And putting up money in advanced has an opportunity cost associated. Also, I really value the interaction between consumer and business.
It is always a pleasure hearing Jason from schiit talk about his products and tell his silly anecdotes, and they run that
business with integrity so I don't flinch that sbaf is basically a part of their (nonexistent) marketing team.
I hope that they never work with massdrop, and I know that they never will.


The second, and even more important, is that massdrop is seriously hurting small businesses in our communities. Companies that work with them
get a boost in sales but lose ownership of their products. Massdrop is commoditizing niche products and in the long run these business will be pushed
out of the way and cannibalized. It is actually a tragedy of the commons, basically companies that don't work with massdrop
will still be pushed out of the way once massdrop has the ability(patents and means of production) to mass produce "their products". Companies that
work with them will be hurt in the long run, but at least they will make some money in the process. Everyone in the keyboard, headphone etc industries
knows this, but since they know that their competitors are working with massdrop already and giving them trade secrets, patents and intel on how to produce
relevant technologies, there is a lot of pressure for these companies to take the short term reward thus hastening their own and others demise.

It has already happened too many times, even right now massdrop is claiming they own the rights to the halo-true keyboard switches input club designed, because massdrop funded production of them so they could use them in their collaboration keyboard "massdrop x input club k type keyboard". Of course that situation is more complicated,but it illustrates a general pattern with massdrop. They are doing everything they can to be able to manufacture this stuff on their own with their own patents etc. In the long run this will be bad for consumers too because the companies they love might not be able to survive in the future, and massdrops products might be the only ones available. I prefer a variety of well built innovative products than a few cheap commoditized options.

TLDR

The small businesses you guys love for their ingenuity, integrity and dedication to our community are slowly being eaten and replaced by Massdrop who is driven only by profits and growth.

Saving a few dollars isn't worth the long wait, implicit risks, poor customer service, inferior warranty and no return capabilities not to mention your participation in commoditizing and corrupting the communities you care about.

 

Bah. This small business victimization shit doesn't fly with me, nor should it with any free thinker. You're too smart for it, K. Massdrop was a small company that grew. Hell it still is a small business by most measures. But they grew a business by doing nothing other than seizing a market opportunity which was/is available to anyone else. Look at today's American consumer: He throws away his perfectly good 9 month old $800 iPhone the moment the [marginally better] next generation comes out. You see it across a wide spectrum of consumer goods. Create enough buzz and hype, and you can iron a 2" x 1" Supreme sticker on a $5 Hanes Beefy T shirt, and sell out of hundreds per week at $100 a pop in under 5 minutes on a Thursday. Long gone are the days of consignment and personal savings. Today we're leveraged up to the hilt thanks to credit galore, artificially low interest rates, and money that grows on trees. So if you're sitting around on your hands as a boutique equipment builder saying "woe is me", I say shame on you. You don't know how to run a business in today's economy, and that's nobody else's fault.... or your equipment might just suck and you should get out of that business anyhow. LOL.

 

What you are saying has no relevance in the cottage industries we are dealing with, and borders on magical thinking. How can someone like Craig compete with massdrop's legal team if they come to him tomorrow and tell him he can't call his amp the zdt or whatever because they own the rights to that name and a similar topology? Things like this are happening with massdrop as we speak.How would you feel if schiit couldn't survive a legal war against massdrop and ultimately sells them the boat?If they were just a marketing company you wouldn't be completely wrong, but I still would have an issue because I don't think the value proposition is there, very few things are discounted enough for the hassles of buying from them.And they are not just a marketing company, they replacing former products with their own and are hunting patents and manufacturing insights, they are ultimately seeking monopolies.They are by no means a small business anymore, not sure why you thing that. They are quickly taking over the industries we care about, and if you don't mind that cool, but I do. Id rather have variety and innovation than cheap commoditized garbage made in Asia. I thought you of all people with you taste for niche high end audio would share this preference.

Your argument would work when talking about something like amazon, and I can live with amazon, because although they are slaughtering retail business they are not having an effect on the Craig of the world who makes high quality niche products. But at least amazon has helped the consumer... at the expense of retail jobs of course. But massdrop is NOT good for the consumer because they are harming the innovators. They will make it harder and harder for new entrants into these hobbies and decrease the consumers choice.

And by the way I think that in long run machines will build most things and perform most tasks. But I hoper there always be a place for creators, artisans and innovators.

 

I have first hand experience of the negative aspect of amazon from the perspective of the vendor. I was merely pointing out that amazon has generally been good for the consumer, and also that it isn't trying to make the products it sells on its own. From my perspective, massdrop is using our money to buy patents with the intent of making the products on its own. I feel like this should bother people a lot considering the long term impact of this.

 

@ultrabike I guess how you feel about massdrop in the long term depends on your preferences for cheap vs no-cut corners/variety/innovative/integrity. And yea Amazon has plenty of issues but they are at least innovating. I can't wait for drone deliveries daily. Amazon branded stuff is just rebranding, I don't think they are not the ones manufacturing it. And that stuff was commoditized ages ago so. If I am wrong about this Id like to know.

Where to shop:

At the very top is calling the company of the thing you are interested and talk to them directly. A lot of audio guys are really old school and you would be surprised how much of a discount you might get after emailing or chatting about for a little while. I have been in tons of communities like this one and that is always the first choice.

Next is going on forums and looking at what is available and if anyone has connections that can help you. For going through audio forum listings, hifishark.com is pretty usfefull. For other communities, you can build your own search tool. Make sure you know if warranty is transferable if buying like this.

Next you look into the companies you work with regularly and know have good deals. Some companies I think one is razor dog, will give you ridiculous discounts on new headphones that they call used. I suppose not everyone knows this.

Next is search engine search to see what else is out there. Then amazon, often the cheapest and in my case delivers most thing the same day with long and flexible return windows. Don't buy from amazon during holiday season.

Last for me are eBay and maybe even craigslist. There are a lot of risks with eBay, especially for sellers, but its a tool, use it at your own risk. Id rather sell on forums than eBay, and I never sell on amazon. If you use PayPal for payment when selling things, use two accounts and always include tracking on your shipments, and insurance if price is above 1000. As soon as you get payment move it to a different account. This way you will not get scammed. PayPal is really shit, so if you can avoid them do so.

 

I don’t disagree with everything you’re saying, but how exactly is MD laying claim to these patents and names if they weren’t agreed upon in the initial contracts? I don’t know the details behind the keyboard thing, and I know small businesses can sometimes be preyed upon by larger entities, but if I were Craig or Alex or any other boutique vendor who was approached by MD, I’d make sure I understood exactly what I was signing (and I know Alex actually agreed to sell his designs to MD, I was just using his name as an example of a boutique manufacturer who MD has approached). If people want to work with Massdrop, it’s on them to read the fine print on the contracts. If MD demands patent ownership on all collaborations, they’ll eventually lose collaborators and have to make a change.

And I think Amazon is actually much worse in the long run than MD. Amazon actively undercuts competitors in areas where Amazon has their own products, either by pricing lower or by not carrying their products at all. And Amazon is building an ecosystem to tie people in, so they can get away with selling e-readers dirt cheap, then subsidizing great deals on e-books to entice more people to buy their e-readers, and eventually upsell them to a monthly e-book subscription, which is a real thing they offer. Full disclosure, I use a Kindle and sometimes buy Kindle books, but often I get them elsewhere and strip the DRM so I can read them on my Kindle. Now expand this to tablets and TV boxes and f'ing speakers you talk to so you can order more things more easily at Amazon.

Massdrop isn’t the only place to get most goods. Sometimes they run good deals, sometimes they have exclusives, but most of the non-MD branded stuff can be had without the wait for a little more money. They may be having a negative impact on the mechanical keyboard space, but right now it seems like the biggest victims in the audio world are the companies selling $1k and over amps and headphones that often underperform for the price.

I’m willing to acknowledge that there are two sides to every story and it sounds like some of MD’s practices should be called out, but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water either.

 

You know what's ironic about the woe is me position is that Massdrop is headquartered in San Francisco. How many Walmarts and Bed Bath & Beyonds do you see in San Francisco, and why? But that's neither here nor there. A fact of life and business is that the most successful and productive are afforded greater resources. If they use those resources to protect their branding or IP rights, so be it. And they could also easily drive themselves right out of business by employing tactics as you frame them, which I can't comment on in the absence of actual facts and details. Nothing stopped someone like a Craig from jumping on the hipster hype train (chuckling as I type) long before Massdrop was even a twinkle in someone's eye, other than self-respect presumably. But business as usual has consequences. You need to stay relevant, offer product that people want to buy at competitive prices, and react to market forces. Sometimes create new markets or at least employ modern day marketing approaches. So perhaps it is sad to see some of the little guys go. And it sure makes for great wedge issue fodder to point at big evil corporations, but at its root it just isn't that simple. You are getting confused by the symptoms and as a result are spewing nonsense.

PS Oh and by the way, how did a simple thread about a mediocre amp priced very appropriately which has fallen fairly short of its goal turn in to this shit show? It absolutely needed to be taken out of the main line. It's disruptive as f**k.