(My) Beyerdynamic T1 FR Measurements

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by Klasse, Nov 15, 2015.

  1. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    As promised, FR measurements of my Beyerdynamic T1.
    [​IMG]
    (Blame Motorola Moto X engineers for the quality of this picture)

    Lot has been said about this headphone...
    As you might know, reviews are kind of a mixed bag and (as Marv pointed out in a recent thread) important variations in frequency response can be found among different units of a particular headphone. This is often a consequence of silent changes in the design and/or production line, lack of proper quality control or even defective units (schiit happens)

    The T1 is apparently no exception.

    For reference, I've decided to upload FR measurements of my first generation Beyerdynamic T1
    (late #16877)

    I'm using a really cheapskate but still consistent 'measurement rig'.
    I'll probably write about it later. (Far from fancy)

    Edited:
    Lately I've been working on the mic compensation so I've remade these measurements applying the Ultimate Most Advanced Ever Never Seen Before Mic Compensation (UMAENSBMC). Or simply the 'SuperBAF' Compensation.


    To check the compensation, I've measured my (new) HD650 in stock form and compared with Marv's measurements here: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd650-love.44/

    Marv's HD650:
    [​IMG]

    My HD650: (Three FR measurements overlapped)
    [​IMG]

    Marv's HD650 (Green Trace) - My HD650 (Pink Trace)
    [​IMG]


    As you surely know, measurements can be all over the place when there's no consensus or reference so I wanted to start sharing the previous graphs so now (hopefully) you can look at my T1's measurements with just a tad more confidence.

    Ok, here we go:

    Beyerdynamic T1 - Right Channel
    [​IMG]

    Beyerdynamic T1 - Left Channel
    [​IMG]

    Beyerdynamic T1 - Driver Matching
    [​IMG]

    Beyerdynamic T1 - CSD Waterfall - Right Channel
    [​IMG]

    Beyerdynamic T1 - CSD Waterfall - Left Channel
    [​IMG]


    8kHz decay seems faster than the earlier T1 measured by Marv
    T1 #16877 is 1.5 ms vs 3 ms (Marv's CSD plots below)


    Subjective impressions:

    This T1 is a warm sounding headphone, with slightly boosted but still tight and layered bass (and sub-bass)

    Next to a trusty K702, the T1 is clearly warmer, more resolving and airier.

    It can be seen on the graphs that there's no big raise around 6kHz thus this T1 is not as steely bright as HD800 or DT880.

    The midrange is warm and pretty lush. Depending on the recording, vocals can stand out and obscure the rest of the midrange a bit (kind of AKG presentation but without the nasal tone). This can be either good or bad depending on personal preferences. For those who enjoy a slight focus on vocals this might be pleasing.

    Switching to the HD800, vocals can sound a tad drier and more distant but at the same time there's better integration, there's more room, and ultimately you can pick up more information (HD800 is more transparent)

    In terms of soundstage this T1 is pretty frontal, with nice depth.
    It's wide but not extremely (HD800) wide.
    With the right recordings, imaging/pinpointing is excellent.

    Although a very good all rounder, this T1 is still on the bright (8 kHz) camp and it might rule out some of your favourite recordings, especially if you listen to music at moderately high levels. For good or bad, it's still a Beyer.

    Greetings from Argentina
    Klasse
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  2. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    Comparison with DT880 Pro 250 Ohm (pink trace)
    [​IMG]
    This graph is pretty much in line with my subjective impressions.

    - T1 is warmer and a bit more forward in the upper midrange (drier)
    - DT880 is significantly brighter around 6 KHz (HD800 kind of bright) and more prone to sibilance.

    What this graphs don't tell is that the T1 has actually a blacker background, tighter and more layared bass, better instrument separation and significantly improved focus.

    While DT880 is a bit smoother and more neutral in the midrange, it's also veiled by comparison.
    T1's sound is more dynamic, textured and contrasting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
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  3. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    I'd like to hear a T1 that sounds like that.

    Thanks for posting.
     
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  4. borrego

    borrego Incessant Audio-GD #1 Fan Boy

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    Great job! My impression of my pair of T1 is exactly like yours. Not surprising as my T1 is also in the #16xxx range.
     
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  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    DT880-250
    dt880l.txt.jpg
    dt880r.txt.jpg

    T1 Gen 1
    T1#2 L.txt.jpg
    T1#2 R.txt.jpg

    Both are bright in different ways. One hurts more.
    One is $185 on Amazon. The other is $750, but should be priced at $350.
     
  6. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Let's not forget that $750 is the "bargain" price. MSRP is $1400.

    That said, awesome work Klasse! :punk:
     
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  7. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    I've stopped complaining about pricing some time ago.
    I think that enjoyment is really personal and that's what we pay for.

    It's really hard for me to tell what should be the price of any of my headphones, although I usually know how much I'm willing to pay for them.

    My preferences might not be those of the majority.
     
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  8. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    It is what it is.

    Doesn't seem the T1 is that horrible (for a $200 headphone, which BTW is what I feel an HD6x0 should be). It also depends on priorities. I don't like bright headphones that much (including the HD800s), though I still have a soft spot for the KSC-75 (considering their price).

    Personally I do worry about pricing. IMO the price of a headphone and audio in general is complex and in some respects a marketing play.

    <rant>I would rather see more money as a fruit of good engineering, than marketing. Which in turn may have as a consequence real advancement in performance. By engineering I don't just mean electrical, acoustical, and mechanical. I also mean process, component and quality engineering. Component engineering BTW includes designing stuff with obtainable, replaceable, and serviceable parts. And as far as advancement is concerned, I rather see it at a practical affordable level as well. Not this "from the heart" $55k bullshit "passion statement" Senn just pulled out. Hell, why did the HD800 had to have the proprietary expensive connectors it has? Was it also a "from the heart" statement? Freaking HD800 Senn balanced cables cost more than an HD600. Of course Beyer is going to get with the program. [​IMG]</rant>

    Anyhow. Good you like your cans Klasse. Stick to what you like and enjoy music man (movies too). :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
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  9. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    It's not that I don't worry about prices, don't get me wrong.

    The thing is that I don't feel in a position to decide what should be the right price for a headphone considering there are many variables involved and some of them affect different people in a different way.

    Lets think about marketing for instance, those tricky guys work to enhance people's desire for an object. If they make a good work, people desire the object very much, then buy it and enjoy having what they've desired very much.

    Take a look at luxury watches, people enjoy (real feelings) the prestige of having these kind of objects. And the prestige is a result of marketing more than engineering.

    With that in mind, it seems that people normally enjoy both, the work of engineering and marketing.

    Of course, some of us weight engineering way more than marketing/prestige, but it's often the other way around with a vast majority of less technical kind of people.

    Other interesting example would be that of a headphone company that realizes there are people willing to pay 1500usd for a luxury headphone that's a little bit better than their current 300usd headphone. They make the luxury headphone, earn plenty of money and use part of it for development in order to improve their line of headphones.

    It could be that they are making good money with the 1500usd headphone so now they can sell the trusty 300usd headphone for 250usd.

    I won't blame Sennheiser for the 55k price tag but I won't buy it.
    They can price it one million dollars if they think that's good for their company.

    That said, the marketing ploy was absurd to me, almost embarrassing.
    Sennheiser tarnish their good name in my book.

    You too, thanks for your comments!
     
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  10. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    I've added CSD Waterfall Plots to the main post.
     
  11. Rasselbande

    Rasselbande Rando

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    Thanks for these measurements, this (plus more bass) ist pretty much what my T1.2 sounds like. Soundsignature is not bright, it has lots of artificial brilliance with that sharp rise at 8kHz.
     
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  12. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    Based on Marv's measurements the T1v2 is considerably warmer than my T1 under 300Hz and has more recessed upper midrange (1.5kHz - 5kHz).

    The T1v2 has a significant rise around 6kHz that's not present on my T1's response. A rise there is most of the times related to sibilance and "steely" kind of quality.

    T1 #16877 might fall in between the early T1 and the new T1v2.
     
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  13. Rasselbande

    Rasselbande Rando

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    Yes, but the T1.2 I have for testing doesn't. With a rise at 6kHz like this it should be nearly as bright and sibilant as the dt990 is but the T1 is much darker. With good recordings there is hardly any sibilance at all, with bright recordings there is a good amound of sibilance. HD800 has more trebble at 6kHz than my T1.2. as has the AKG k712pro. Many reviews confirm this, sibilance with the T1.2. depend mainly on the recording.
    Maybe drivers are not very consistent or measurements are difficult because of the position of the drivers.

    The recessed midrange is one of the downsides of the new T1, as is the driver ringing which bothers me a lot. I never had the chance to listen to the original T1.
     
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  14. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    It would be interesting to have more measurements of the new T1v2 to discover if there's much variation within different units.
    That said, I think the raised bass and lower mids could help to make the 6kHz raise less of an issue.
    HD800 lack this kind of warmth and thus the 6kHz raise is much more evident.

    DT990 is bloody bright, DT880 is on the bright side, and has a rise around 6kHz but still not close to DT990.
    T1v2 is probably similar to DT880 in the treble, but significantly warmer.

    DT880 vs DT990
    [​IMG]
     
  15. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    The DT990 is IMO considerably brighter than the HeadRoom plot lets in.

    That's one of the reasons I bought it some years ago. I though the measurements indicated a bright headphone, but not too bad. Wrong.
     
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  16. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    In terms of balance, yes, but the timbre is still a problem due to the spiky, peaky nature of the T1v2 response. The DT880 has smoother treble.
     
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  17. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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    I've re-made this set of measurements applying a new (SuperBAF-like) compensation.
    Also added HD650 measurements for reference.
     

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