NwAvGuy's Dream Cums Tru: Schiit Magni 3 Heresy

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifier Measurements' started by purr1n, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    Odds are very high that Amir either won’t measure the Heresey or will measure it and 1) purposely bork them, or 2) measure it well but also subject it to a teardown where he claims the soldering is “terrible.” Either way, it will be a “can’t recommend.”
     
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I actually do feel the Magni 3+ is an improvement in emotional involvement compared to the Magni 3. Tonality is similar, but 3+ has tighter transients, particularly tighter bass. It's not earth-shattering differences. I don't have Magni 3 on-hand, but my "musical memory" has always seemed pretty good, and you can always ask @zerodeefex who I believe has both.

    Personally, I don't believe in upgrading each cycle, especially with Schiit which keeps making incremental improvements with each generation. On the other hand $100 isn't all that much, and didn't or isn't Schiit clearing out the old Magni 3 for $79? Your old Magni 3 is still a solid amp for what was $99, but would make a great gift to a loved one or co-worker.

    As an aside, I wouldn't gift the Magni 3 Heresy, because I don't think it sounds good enough. Feels lame to give people stuff you don't like.
     
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  3. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I actually have the Magni 3+ on the measurement bench right now.
    • Not surprising: less rejection of AC mains (it's discrete transistors);
    • Very surprising: THD very close to Magni 3 Heresy at output voltages at typical listening levels.
    (Ugh, every time I think of this stuff, I shake my head at how dumb Amir is in regards to how circuit design will affect measurements, considering I myself am hardly an expert. That guy is so full of himself. Heading and failing at the HDCD, HD-DVD, and Zune efforts at Microsoft hardly qualifies him to judge audio circuits, which requires another wholly different set of skills. I think he's just jealous and bitter because he failed, not at the engineering, but at marketing.)

    More later tonight. Taking family to see the stolen antiquities at Getty Villa. Haha, don't get me mistaken for being politically correct, but I like to teach my kids to see from different points of view. The example I cited to my kids: "Wouldn't it be weird to see Robert E. Lee's pistol displayed in a Shanghai museum because it was obtained and sold to a rich Chinese collector by unscrupulous carpetbaggers?"
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
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  4. RobS

    RobS treboR (Psalmanazar Groupie)

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    Does Amir even listen to the gear he measures anymore? There's hardly any subjective impressions at the end of his measurements. His whole method on what constitutes good vs bad gear is bunk, but I'd like to see his own personal opinions to augment the measurements.
     
  5. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    He just cant do it. He probably thinks the majority of the gear that measures badly sounds better than anything topping has to offer.
     
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  6. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    No one cares about Amir. Why we talking about him.
     
  7. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    He recently reviewed a tube model from Xduoo that had sky-high 2nd order distortion. He said he couldn't hear any "tube magic", just sound. Whether he liked it or not it is kinda irrelevant: he is either deaf, or refuses to tell a difference to protect his objective BS.
     
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  8. GettingBuckets

    GettingBuckets Almost "Made"

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    Obviously for most people it won't make a difference, but being the poor student that I am, is it a better deal than getting a whole damn regular Magni 3 from Schiit for 60 bucks now? Because I can't even think of another decent amp in general that goes for $60.
     
  9. Sherm

    Sherm Acquaintance

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    I would be even less surprised to see him measure it, declare it recommended as Schiit's best performing amp and then take credit for pushing Schiit to engineer higher performance products. He actually recommended the Modi 3 after figuring out ASIO4ALL borked the USB measurements.

    In any case, good on Schiit for doing this. Jason has effectively beaten objectivist zealots at their own game.
     
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  10. john5220

    john5220 Banned for racism

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    I could understand shitting on NwAvGuy and denying Science when it comes to something like headphones since it is widely accepted that science cannot properly measure headphones.

    But to suggest that science cannot properly measure a DAC or AMP is pretty absurd.

    Anything you hear with different amps is just confirmation bias since everybody fails a blind test with a DAC / AMP, you are after all talking about 1s and 0s here, Toms Hardware did an article not long ago where expert audiophiles failed to tell the difference between a $2 DAC and a $2000 DAC in a blind test

    For whatever reason Audio is the only field related to science where users reject science. Normally you do see this with churches and mosques rejecting science.

    Yesterday I tried to focus on a song and pretend the $2 onboard was a $1 million Dollar DAC and it actually sounded better than my Liquid Spark AMP and D30 DAC which costs considerably more. Then when I focused on the onboard sounding like rubbish, it actually sounded like rubbish.

    Confirmation Bias is a hell of a thing when it comes to our brain/ear drums

    I just wish there was an explanation as to why we reject science on these Audio Forums across the internet, as Richard Dawkins say, just because science cannot explain some things doesn't mean we should reject science and make up sh!t out of thin air to explain it. Unfortunately even these days Richard Dawkins is hated by many on the left for his stance AGAINST religion. Not much different to the hate NwAvGuy gets for putting science first

    Many of you will agree that Dr Dawkins deserves all the hate he gets for Sh!tting on religion and putting science and education first but how can you praise Religion and Science at the same time? it doesn't make any sense....
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
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  11. Lyander

    Lyander Too sensitive for SBAF

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    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-2-uber-ak4490.2290/
     
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  12. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Acquaintance

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    A DAC/amp can be properly measured with scientific methods, but just using an expensive instrument isn't science.

    Ignoring results derived from human perception isn't science either.
     
  13. john5220

    john5220 Banned for racism

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    What are your thoughts on ignoring results from human perception / human ear cannot be trusted because of Confirmation Bias?

    Is Confirmation Bias a scientifically proven fact?

    Not gonna lie its cool I can post stuff like this on this site, on head fi posting something like confirmation bias or anything regarding science gets you an instant ban.
     
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  14. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Acquaintance

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    Confirmation bias can be eliminated with blind testing (single/double/triple/whatever).

    If the measurements don't jive with human observations then something is missing from the measurement, that's all it is.
     
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  15. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    Gotta love confirmation bias. Makes my Gungnir sound really good. Who needs those expensive cables after all?
     
  16. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    One step forward, two steps back. You sure talk about science a lot without actually doing any kind of research. You've been told repeatedly that there are people on this site who have done double-blind testing and can reliably tell the difference between dacs and amps. I can't tell if you have a genuine interest or if you are a troll, but with just a little effort you can sound a lot less ignorant.
     
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  17. Jinxy245

    Jinxy245 Vegan Puss

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    I'm sorry but your hypothesis is horseshit.
    "Anything you hear with different amps is just confirmation bias since everybody fails a blind test with a DAC / AMP,"
    How on earth can you confirm this? Have you tested everyone? Have you tested anyone yourself?

    As @Mithrandir41 said, it's been said that double blinds have been done here. Jason does them at the Shiitr. If you don't trust either of them, Tyll did a whole series called "Big Sound".

    I also hardly think that "pretending" your equipment is different while knowing what your equipment is comes off as very scientific.

    FWIW, I think confirmation bias is a thing, and in (way too) many instances in reviews it can really screw things up. But to assert that it's impossible to tellthe difference between DACs/Amps seems asinine. Who are the "audiophiles" that Tom tested? What was the equipment used?
    There are just too many variables.

    You do come off as wanting to provoke more than inquire or have a conversation, so maybe that should be taken into account as well.
     
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  18. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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  19. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    If you've been reading, like actually reading (rather than assuming and pontificating), the measurement threads here, you will understand how easy it is to fuck up on measurements.

    Measurements require humans to conduct and often the weak link is humans. Other times it's environmental, especially on 0.000x type of measurements. Consistency and reliability of measurements is something that all engineering students learn in their first year weed out classes, at least a good universities. You get to learn how hard it is to get precise and accurate results, and wonder how some lab teams suck at it, and others are good.

    --

    Read other blind tests here. Less pontificating, more reading. Because people at Tom's cannot hear a difference does not mean that people here cannot. Thinking such is faulty logic and unscientific.

    Confirmation bias also goes both ways. Just as we can't assume there is a difference, we can't assume that there is no difference. Scientifically, we can't assume there is no difference since I've never seen any two measurements 100% the same. The differential is even more when we consider two, three, or four different types of measurements.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
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  20. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I thought, for a minute, that this was a conversation. Meaning that you were listening to the others. Sadly, that was obviously not the case.

    Still, others had interesting things to say.
     
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