Poll: Magni Apostolic Edition Interest

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by bboris77, Dec 17, 2019.

?

Do you want a Magni Apostolic Edition? What color should it be?

  1. No way, I don't want a $99 amp with less than 105db SINAD and 100db of feedback!

    3 vote(s)
    2.8%
  2. All Silver

    16 vote(s)
    14.8%
  3. Black / Green (Racing)

    13 vote(s)
    12.0%
  4. Black / Blue

    6 vote(s)
    5.6%
  5. Black / Purple

    10 vote(s)
    9.3%
  6. Black / Silver (Raiders)

    4 vote(s)
    3.7%
  7. Black / Yellow (Bumblebee)

    7 vote(s)
    6.5%
  8. Black / White (Stormtrooper)

    21 vote(s)
    19.4%
  9. Black / Red (a la Heresy)

    5 vote(s)
    4.6%
  10. Transparent aluminum

    48 vote(s)
    44.4%
  11. Black / Black (Darth Vader)

    19 vote(s)
    17.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Brooko

    Brooko Almost "Made"

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    Hey Purrin - compliments of the season. I really like this idea. Reason - one of the best sounding portable amps I've tried is a DIY job. It sounds fantastic - a lot like a really good tube amp. Its SS and designed to have 2nd order harmonics (much like you're proposing). Funniest thing with the amp (I ended up buying it) - its a battery operated "mint-tin" DIY project. Details can be found here - https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/302859-xrk971-pocket-class-headamp-gb.html

    Measurements (his)
    [​IMG]

    If Schiit are considering a desktop version along the same lines, I'd be very much interested!
     
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    True, but I was thinking it could be a nice thing for SBAF. A limited run like what Grado had done with HF with their special editions never to be exactly replicated in their standard offerings. Now if Schiit wanted to do a wider release, fine by me.

    Think of it this way: it's sort of a personal ask by some of the folks here. The text messages from various members I've received on this concept are simple:

    I want it.

    --

    Party pooper!

    P.S. The Aegir, Pioneer M22, and BW2 all have something in common despite different tonal response: spine tingling engagement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
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  3. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I'm not really in the market for a small headphone amp, but could find a use for it in the future, probably.

    So, from me you'll get a hesitant Maybe. I might want it / would buy it, if it sounds right. Problem is, I'm not buying anything sight unseen anymore. Or, rather, unheard. If someone who's preferences align with mine and who's ears I trust tell me it's good, then ok. There are 3 people on this list, and I don't recall seeing any of them chiming in that they're interested.

    However, I've said for quite a while if the BW2 was made again, or if something came along with it's sound, that it would sell like mad. It's also the only sound I'd be looking for if I added another amp to my collection.

    Seriously, if @schiit got in touch with EC to make a Schiit/EC collaboration BW3 edition amp that sounded like the BW2 in different clothing, I doubt I'd even check my budget before mashing the buy button repeatedly and continue doing so until the damned thing showed up on my porch. Even if it came in a Rag chassis. Or was $2000.

    Which makes me wonder how the BW2 measures for the Amir-brainwashed-measures-good-or-die crowd. Because for me, there really is no arguing that amp sounds amazing, measurements be damned.

    So, that's a long winded maybe from me. GL

    Edit - Also, I couldn't give half of two shits about what color they made it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
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  4. will_f

    will_f Almost "Made"

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    Interesting.. This could be a very interesting amp. Somebody should build this and put a bunch out there just to see what happens. It might shake up the mid-range amp market a little to see a nice inexpensive amp that delivers the euphonic sound of tubes with the speed and clarity of solid state..

    I’d buy one. It would be nice if it supported a wide range of headphone types too, but I’m personally willing to trade power for quality as long as it doesn’t have insane output impedance. Also- I think it should be silver. Silver is a good color. It would match all my other Schiit and besides, who wants to have some sort of gaming console stuck in with their audio gear?
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  5. bboris77

    bboris77 Almost "Made"

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    Marv, a quick question - in a direct comparison between the Asgard 3 and Magni 3+, which one has better staging? The reason why I am asking is because I just got the HD800s and I am wondering if the Magni 3+ will be a good match with it.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Staging probably about the same. Asgard 3 over 3+ if HD800. Makes the HD800 sound less dry.
     
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  7. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Why should we even care about THD params, if the amp handily bests everything else in a listening test? It might as well have a distortion profile indiscernible from the Heresy.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Actually don't care.

    But did want to point out that great sounding amps will never have Heresy distortion profile. Think about it...
     
  9. Aelms

    Aelms Acquaintance

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    Considering Jason follows Broskie’s weekly posts which often cover topology influence harmonic structure, I’m more interested in his own take on the matter.

    Heck, rather than the best amp that checks all the broadest appeal boxes or follows anyone’s audio bible for $99, I just want to see his own best sounding amp that fits in a Magni chassis even if price approaches Asgard 3.
     
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  10. jazglers

    jazglers Acquaintance

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    Is there an additional thread or link where I can read more about the implications of distortion profile? Based on previous threads, I currently know that excess of feedback makes things sound more lifeless even though distortion improves. And that atomicbob's measurement threads have links on how to interpret measurements.
     
  11. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I don't really think the distortion profile on the Heresy is textbook bad. H2 dominates, followed by H3 and the rest are too low to matter, as shown in Schiit's own measurements @300Ohm

    upload_2019-12-25_14-4-54.png

    And even more H2 @32 Ohms.

    upload_2019-12-25_14-7-43.png

    Magni 3+ has a similar harmonic profile, only with H2 and H3 at a higher amplitude (still well below the hearing threshold, if you ask me).

    The point I'm trying to make is that these measurements correlate poorly to real world performance save for a few border cases. The amp @Brooko is talking about doesn't sound better because it has more distortion. Pretty sure one could design a horrid warmpoo amp by adhering to a some "correct" HD profile, heck - you could pepper some distortion on the Heresy and emulate it.

    Amp sound in my opinion is largely dictated by their topology and cannot be fully characterized by the traditional set of electric measurements. @Brooko 's amp sounds like it does because it's built around a single ended topology which correlates with the H2/low-H dominant profile, but one should take care to not think that the harmonic profile is all that causes the superior sonic performance.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I don't think you get it. Please see my prior post here where I've laid out a distortion profile, apples-apples, directly against Heresy: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...olic-edition-interest.8728/page-2#post-283401

    The key differences and misunderstandings:
    • Heresy has essentially no distortion!
    • Distortion profile also means distortion vs power, not just pattern or distribution of harmonics. I never said that the Heresy's distribution of harmonics was bad. The only thing I suggested was a target that was something slightly different than Heresy. There was no logical implication that Heresy's harmonics pattern was bad.
    • We need to look at distortion across the power levels and the little things matter: H2 and H3 are closer together on the Heresy than the pattern I am suggesting. Even moreso on the Magni+.
    • More distortion doesn't mean shit levels of distortion. I'm still thinking 90db+ SINAD (where 16-bit CD is 96b SINAD)
    --

    Here, this is the distortion profile, which I have overlaid on top on the Heresy measurement you got from Schiit.

    As you can see they are different. Instead of 115-120db SINAD we have 95-100db SINAD, which by all measures by normal people is still excellent.

    upload_2019-12-25_10-42-31.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
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  13. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    The point being that topology that produces this characteristic downward sloping distortion FFT sounds good, no matter that the distortion itself can not be heard, right?

    I think there is something in it, but by far will it not guarantee good sounding amp.
    What about the all important cross-over distortion and ways to get around it that appear to be in the way of good sound?
     
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  14. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Yes, SE topologies will have downward sloping distortion FFT. For PP design, class A will get around crossover distortion.

    The SE amp that @Brooko posted is a two stage extremely simple SE design with two active components. The Project Horizon is like this except with a tube at the input stage. Both of these designs will sound good, but they do have one drawback: big ass cap at the output to block DC. There's always a veil penalty with such large cap.

    A Magni Apostolic edition I would envision as direct coupled PP (their Continuity deal, inspired by idea from Tubecad.com), but tweaked to a distortion pattern and distortion vs power behavior similar to a ... triode. There is resolution penalty with PP, but there are always tradeoffs.

    And of course, no guarantees!

    Anyway, for what I think is the third time, the intent of the discussion is really not about the exact form, levels, pattern, profile of the distortion. It's about making it very clear from the beginning that this amp will be not designed for the Audio Measurement Fascist. That ASR will not have to measure it and proclaim it's "not recommended" - because the very intention of the design it for it to be "not recommended", at least for them. If folks who subscribe to the Audio Measurement Fascist view aren't already puking in utter disgust at what I have proposed, then I haven't done my job.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  15. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Don't need this. Don't have space for the amps I have. Do want. Damn.
     
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