Schiit Jotunheim has no grounding / hum issues.

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    ASR measurements
    Schiit Jotenheim DAC dashboard as is measurement.png

    From AverLAB - Jotunheim
    Jot fed 8.24dBU ~ 2.0Vrms. Volume set so gain was 1 (for BAL). Load is 330ohm resistor.

    SE output
    JOT SE-1.jpg

    BAL output
    Jot BAL-1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    This is an older Jotunheim, first production run. Note distortion characteristics are slightly different from the current run. (The newer one does sound different - warm and not aggressive - and not quite as zippy on the transients. This is a different story though).

    JOT SE2-1.jpg
    Jot BAL2-1.jpg
     
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  3. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Did he seriously spell it with a 'Y'?!
     
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  4. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I'm guessing his Jotunheim is plugged into the same power strip as his computer, AP555, room fan, washing machine, 56k modem, and dot matrix printer. But it's Amir, so he magically has a super awesome power strip that defeats any such issues like interference, and we ignorant peons couldn't possibly begin to fathom his awe inspiring technical knowledge about line conditioning, emi shielding, or the sheer efforts he goes through (for our benefit) just to do shitty, rushed, non-standards conforming "science" and measurements.
     
  5. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    Amir's fuckery aside, I am starting to suspect that Averlab may exceed AP at less than 10%(!) of AP price... What an impressive performance.
     
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  6. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Friend

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    More likely, AP has a lot more rope for the unwary or biased to hang themselves with. Averlab/AP555 ~ Python/C++ <ducks/>
     
  7. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I mean, the headphones subreddit has to have something to jerk off to. After years of random posters trying to get people to understand that the O2+ODAC is not that great anymore, the vocal objective minority had to find something else to cling to. It happens to be measurements they don't fucking understand, and telling them any different gets you a "Well, you're not an electrical engineer, what do you know?"

    Well fuck you assholes, my degree is a subset of Electrical Engineering.

    Not that I'm salty or anything. This entire post was funnier in my head.
     
  8. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    @purr1n lol -120dB at 60 Hz? I saw Amirm getting slapped around pretty good on his forum by the Benchmark guy the other night, too. He's been banned from two other forums. Did he have invent his own forum to run his smack? That's not even working out so well.
     
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  9. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    I suspect that very few, if any of the people you are describing are EEs either. There are too many mistakes and inconsistencies. It's just not worth dealing with. Life is short enough already.

    Yeah, I have an EE degree.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Amir had similar high 60Hz hum results for Yaggy too. Results which @atomicbob, Jude, and I could not replicate.

    Makes me wonder if Amir tied his RCA cables next to power cables, or left a crappy switcher leaking 60Hz EMF next to RCA cables. Remember guys, this stuff if -85, -90, -115db down.

    One thing Amir neglected to mention is the exemplary low THD of the Jotunheim. This is something he would have highlighted had the amp been manufacturered by Topping.
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    It's funny because the ASR guys are like "pfft, AverLAB, WTH is that". Avermetrics is some ex-AP guys. Where the AverLAB falls behind is the software, interface, bells and whistles. For example, I can't do the narrow filters for linearity, like on the AP. I'd have to manually take a bunch of measurements to the same on the AP where a few clicks and button press would do the job.
     
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  12. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    Amir has a pattern to his releases. He does reviews and measurements on a piece of schiit gear that almost always has one non-reproceable anomaly. Then, he releases a Chinese-engineered dac with no issues.

    Nwavguy was at least respected because he was trying to do some good for the industry but got flustered when his views were challenged. Amir is just a shill...he has yet to endorse any non-topping stuff and barely covers anything that isnt Chinese or isnt named Schiit.
     
  13. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I'm kinda wondering now if the Topping measured better because it used a switcher. Not that the switcher is better, but if there is severe power/grounding issues, I wonder if a switcher would look better then an LPS in that situation.

    An SMPS can usually take power from 100 VAC to 240 VAC without too much difference and almost any reasonable frequency. An LPS usually needs to be configured to a specific voltage to work correctly.
     
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  14. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    The AverLAB is really really good. But besides the narrow filters and the SW automation, it may also require attenuators for high power amp measurements as @atomicbob pointed out when I brought up the RME ADI-2 PRO, which also has some pretty awesome numbers.

    The QA401 does have some attenuators integrated. But it is not an AverLAB or RME ADI-2 Pro in terms of THD+N performance.

    Any of these are superior to my Focusrite 2i2 which is based of the Cirrus TOTL CODEC. Any CODEC (integrated ADC and DAC) is below any TOTL separate ADC + DAC. Still, what is holding back the 2i2 is likely the buffers and other not-so-awesome interfaces. Additionally, unbalanced connections on the 2i2 are an after-thought.

    Maybe one day I'll do some heroic balanced to unbalanced and unbalanced to balanced interface for it. But I held back because the CODEC is still going to hold things back anyways, not to mention the interface is probably not all it could be even for balanced. Not worth the effort or the expense IMO. Relative good mic pre-amps for headphone measurements, or even balanced measurements (up to a certain point). Such is life.

    BTW, a Lyra 2 might be more of a Focusrite 2i2 upgrade than an RME ADI-2 Pro due to mic interfaces, though I think the RME is better in THD+N by a mosquito fart or two. In fact, I think the RME somewhat matches the AverLAB. Maybe they use the same AKM converters. I think Lyra uses Cirrus.

    And yes. Amir is an idiot. He doesn't need a TOTL audio interface, or a more user friendly Analyzer. He needs a qualified professional monkey doing the job, while he looks pretty presenting and claiming the work as his own. His arrogant ass sorely needs that monkey now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  15. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Oh, the irony. Everyone else, not-the-in-group-at-ASR, are audio component snobs. Topping is all you need. Yet when it comes to audio measurement equipment they behave in exactly the same fashion. Projection behavior anyone?

    Avermetrics is held back by SW at the moment. But it is SW. This situation will improve over time. I'm willing to bet cleverness can overcome many things. Keep an eye on Avermetrics.

    For what it is worth, may I reiterate that Stanford Research, Rohde & Schwarz, Prism Sound, Keysight, Avermetrics, Audio Precision, etc. all make high quality audio analyzer systems. With a bit of DIY, Quantasylum, RME + HpW-works, etc. can perform very well. High performance measurements may be made with any of them provided experienced, knowledgeable users. Any of them can produce crap results when operated inappropriately or incompetently.
     
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  16. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    That said, there's something very slightly ropey about the grounding on my Jot- it hums if I touch it, but is fine when I don't. I resolve this by not fondling it unless strictly necessary.
     
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  17. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    Yeah, I couldn't deal with that. I fondle my gear as often as possible. Tubes in my Lyr 3 for example. Slide it in... gently wiggle it out. So satisfying.

    Giggity
     
  18. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    While there are some question marks about Amir’s results, this statement is simply not true. He gave high marks to both RME ADI-2 models (3, counting the two versions of the Pro), Benchmark DAC1 and DAC3, and an older Musical Fidelity model.

    Benchmark challenged him on several unexpected results, but decided to play ball: it is sending him a (presumably pre-tested and well-measuring) DAC3 for a retest. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out.
     
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  19. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    @gepardcv, I'll level with you. I don't think Amir is the shit devil himself. Nobody is perfect or fully shit. There is no black and white.

    His Benchmark and RME reviews are not a complete waste IMO. That said, his reviews put way to much weight on jitter. They don't cover distortion as well as I would like (though he is improving on this lately). I still don't get his Amir-bits bullshit which he keeps pushing. He should just drop that. And yes, he did not take a full dump on RME and Benchmark the way he did on almost all things Schiit. I also want to see him really listen to stuff and offer his subjective appreciation in a more balanced way.

    Amir should probably had investigated a few more Jots and measure and re-measure under different conditions before calling out the 60 Hz "problem". He seems to jump the gun too fast, which does happen to newbies and even seasoned individuals.

    The first thing he should have done is note that other reviewers don't show a very problematic 60 Hz harmonic in their THD measurements. This alone should have prompted him to further investigate across mulitple units and question his measurements.

    I have yet to see Amir take a more humble stand where he questions his measurements. Instead I see him taking cheap shots at everyone and calling himself the "high ranking" audio dude, the measurements "top dog", and the DSP "guru". He is none of those things. I have even a hard time understanding his agenda, other than "Amir knowns" kind of crap. It tends to be annoying.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  20. bobsherman

    bobsherman Acquaintance

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    The Black Rasta Rabbi there trys to explain this to the amir but he will have none of it. The amir knows all and cannot be told anything. He is even going back at the Benchmark designer. He is now trying hard to discredit Atomic Bob. A sad little man dressed up like a Japanese Women, who would have thunk it!
     

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