Speaker System for noob 3k-4k budget

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by kirayamato, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    hi guys i am on a hd800S now and i know it doesn't get better than that in the headphone world atleast for me

    now am thinking of going the next step and since i have saving that i was gonna spend on a he1000 but ofcourse i got it returned because the build quality was a crapshoot

    I would like to invest in a speaker system so I already have a yggdrasil and a ragnarok right now but that might get changed to a black widow when hopefully they release it so considering that I would prefer a self power system the room will not be that large i'll give measurements later
    and i will live in apartments so I can hardly go ham on the sound so require speakers that are efficient but can ofcourse fill the room reasonable well

    Budget around 3k stretch to 4k if something significantly better that will include cables ,amp if needed and the actual speakers


    on a side note how much would I need to spend to out resolution a hd800?
     
  2. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    Not much. Most good speakers will overall have lower harmonic distortion and better resolution/resolving abilities than headphones from my experience. But, overall it depends. I heard 50k-100k systems before that sounded like ass before and rather use my crappy ipod earbuds for reference purposes...

    4k is lot of money and not having much experience yourself I would browse slowly on what interests you and possibly going used to get the feel for everything on what you personally think about speakers and to find your personal preferences. Even 500-1k can get a very exceptional system started.
     
  3. Rotijon

    Rotijon Friend

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    If you want, a friend is selling a pair of joseph audio pulsars at roughly 4k including shipping to the usa. I can help you buy it and ship it to you.

    Those speakers are one of the best bookshelfs i know and will definitely out resolution the HD800S in a good room.
     
  4. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Go listen to speakers at the local Boston shops. Audio Lab (Cambridge), Natural Sound (Framingham), and Goodwins High End (Waltham). The latter two are my picks, mostly because Audio Lab's listening room sucks and it's hard to properly demo with the owner and his friends always talking.

    Natural Sound sells Magnepan, which I would recommend demoing if you're interested in resolution. Maggies aren't the best match with the Rag according to some folks, but with your budget you could easily get a different amp if you wanted.

    Edit: if you're interested, 1.6QR for $700 on Craigslist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
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  5. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    is that you selling or someoneelse but anyways what else would i need a separate amp and dac to make that thing run ?

    also how much is a new one i can't seem to find the price XD
     
  6. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Reserve a quarter of the budget for room/acoustic treatment; perhaps more if new furniture figures into the equation.
     
  7. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    That is not my post, but I run the same speakers. They are predecessors to the current 1.7i model. Originally sold for probably $1,500 to $2,000. 1.7i sells for $2,000.

    You would definitely not need a new DAC to run them (I use Yggdrasil as well), but you may need a new amp. Depends on your room size and listening habits to some extent. I know of one Head-Fi user that was using the Rag with a pair of bigger Magnepan speakers like that.

    What are your room dimensions where the speakers will go? How far could you feasibly move them out from the wall behind them and how close to the wall behind you would you be sitting?

    If the room is smaller, probably best to go with some bookshelf monitors rather than a pair of Maggies. :)
     
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  8. Vastx

    Vastx Almost "Made"

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    +1 for local shops listening.
    Don't afraid to spend hours of listening in a shop. Try different amps and most important arrange a demo at your house. Knowing the size of your room would help. Some speakers with extended low frequencies that sound good in the shop could cause you to go insane at home. I've been there with a nice big tower with lateral woofer who didn't really like my room. I tried everything, from passive room correction devices to DRC. I had to sell them and move on to another speaker.
     
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  9. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    am probably getting a new apartment but thankfully i should know the dimensions soon i'll let you know

    and yes @Vastx i should really go do some listening zonto gave me some places to go should probably try going in the next few days but if i can get something on sale that would be the best from what i see like the magnepans seem like a steal
     
  10. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    oh thanks for the reply but i don't have the money yet just making a budget i wrote 3-4k i would rather not spend it though if i can get something good for less
     
  11. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Hello

    I dont have much personal experience with speakers but I know that Andrew Jones is considered a legend in speaker design.

    He now works for Elac Audio a german company which has released a new line of speakers which reportedly punch way above their modest price points.

    Please look into them, the reviews are glowing.....I dont know if they can be trusted but he designed Pioneer bookshelfs for less than 200 usd which are considered fantastic value so he has a great track record.

    I have never heard a Jones speaker myself just trying to give you an option that ive read great things about.
     
  12. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    I would definitely email the guy and see if they are still available, etc. Natural Sound should have at least the Magnepan model below to demo so you can get an idea. (I heard MG12 when I went a few years ago.) Could also start with MMG there. Natural Sound has a policy where if you spend $X dollars there on a given product type, within three years of purchase if you upgrade to a similar type of product that costs at least 2*$X and trade your first product in, they will give you price you paid toward the trade-in. Good way to slowly upgrade.

    Audio Lab may have the KEF LS50, which you should demo as well. They are often recommended with the Rag, and touted by reviewers too.

    Check Stereophile's review of the new Elac bookshelf speakers designed by Andrew Jones. Edit: did not see previous post before posting. Random.

    If you like the Maggies like I did and pick up a pair, let me know. I can recommend some cables, fuses, etc. that I've tried that worked really well and are not very expensive at all. Also have a bunch of bookmarked sites for room placement, acoustic treatment, etc. that I could share.
     
  13. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    Ah HA!!!
     
  14. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf MOT - Sonarworks

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    Before you go all-out, keep in mind that under around 200Hz the AFR will be largely dictated by how your room will interact with the loudspeaker. Putting a 4k speaker in a bare room will get you mids and treble, but room boom will quickly kill most of the listening joy. I remember initially setting my KEF LS50 on the table sans stands and the sound was super meh. Early reflections induced a crazy mid suckout and bass was very boomy.

    Also if you have the chance - deposit some cash and bring those speakers to your own pad. Or at least be realistic how the room in the shop compares to the one you have.

    As for recommendations - I'm super happy with my KEF LS50 + SVS SB-2000 combo. I also very much like ATC loudspeakers, see if you can find some, preferably with their famous dome midrange.
     
  15. matt.w

    matt.w Rando

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    I'm fond of speakers that attempt to work with the room instead of requiring all the space in an anechoic chamber.

    To that end, if you're cool with the size and aesthetics, I would highly recommend Duke/Audiokinesis. Here's a current model that would fit your budget:
    http://www.audiokinesis.com/prisma.html

    Not up to speed in the rest of the speaker world to know what other current designs take a radiation control approach, or consider room boundaries. In the past there's been Gedlee, Gradient, North Acoustics, among others.

    Shill alert: I've owned a pair of Audiokinesis speakers the past 6 years and love them in a terrible room with no treatments.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Provided you have furniture and don't live like a hermit, it's not difficult to make almost any speaker work in a decent sized room. The need for acoustic treatments has been vastly overstated or at least not put into proper context. Speaker companies do design for real rooms, not studio production bays. The need for anechoic chambers and massively treated rooms is utter bullshit. Most basstraps are also bullshit.

    The important things to ask before buying:
    1. Is the speaker designed to be used close to the wall or several feet in front of it?
    2. If the speaker is a monitor or "bookshelf", was it meant to sit on a table / surface or to sit on top of stands?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
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  17. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    i agree. in good sized room it's bit less hassle from my experience but, if the room walls itself are well dampen cause some houses with plaster walls will sound like echo chambers. .. i still though would suggest take little time and effort on studying room treatments and effects for basic ideas for optimal positioning of the speakers and get idea of understanding dispersion patterns and how it interacts with the environment...

    i always suggest buy best headphones/speakers one can afford and go from there. if save money on purchases then that's great. if not, it's still great. just suggested since op has very little experience with speakers in general i think 4k while amazing budget is still considered very high for your avg newbie/consumer and suggest exploring around, auditioning if can before diving in.

    on real room thing..yea, lot of speakers are designed in a diffused-field chambers for consumer use in actual real rooms. most speakers use the diffused-field manner except professional speakers which are still usually designed in traditional anechoic chambers anymore nowadays. most dsp like doby is basically diffused-field technologies as well....

    i wouldn't suggest diving in dipole speakers like maggies unless take time on how basic room interactions work so can get best out of them. also only maggies i liked a lot are older ones like the mgIII/a with ribbon tweeters and external crossover boxes. i think maggies don't use ribbons anymore for the tweeters except their high-end top models but, magnepan customer service is top notch and very awesome. they will sit there on the phone with you step by step of the way if need to do repairs and will include extra parts for free cause they already know you're gonna screw up a few times before getting it right lol.
     
  18. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf MOT - Sonarworks

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    By the way - what music do you plan listening to?
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    OK, I read through the post and the entire thread. I am assuming that you will have limited space to work with in your apartment and will have a room not much bigger than 10'x12'. Also, I will take into account that you like the sound of the HD800S with its resolution, focused and crisp attacks, superb imaging, and maybe a somewhat drier or accurate sound. I will also assume (highly suggest) that you get stand mounted monitors.

    This is what you might want to consider:

    http://www.fritzspeakers.com/EXCEL 7.asp
    [​IMG]

    I would suggest stuff with the Accuton ceramic drivers, but those speakers will be above your price range. Stick with these Seas magnesium mid/bass drivers if you like the presentation of the HD800 / HD800S. Again, do not forget stands. Fritz tends to build a bit of a mid-bass bump into most of his two way speakers. These need to be on a stand and away from the back wall at least two feet. Fritz's tuning tends to be darker with his other speakers, but this one reminds me of the HD800, but with NONE of the weirdness (6k peak, grainy last octave, sucked out mids, etc.) of the HD800. Do not get the Fritz models with treated paper Scan-Speak drivers, because they have a different presentation almost opposite to that of the HD800. Finally, consider a sub to round off the bottom octave. Go for the Scanspeak tweeter / series crossover option. This is not cheap, but the parts of the drivers and crossover parts are over a third of Fritz's asking price. This doesn't even take into account the materials cost and labor for the cabinets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
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  20. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf MOT - Sonarworks

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    Pretty sure that no-one in their right mind would design a speaker with the treble anomalies of the HD800. Mostly because no one would buy it. When I start to think about it - one would have a hard time finding a tweeter which would sound like the HD800.

    Marv's suggestions are very decent. Accuton drivers are indeed very good, but also very expensive. If you can find a builder to do the work, you can try these -

    http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AT-SW.htm

    http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AT-3WC.htm

    The last one might let you forego the sub, if bass quantity is of lesser importance.
     

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