The Last Jedi Thread (with Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by ultrabike, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    I'm waiting for the next Star Wars movie that gives us an in depth look at the realm of fallen Jedi's where Yoda, Obi Wan, and Luke kick it, and trade war stories with the holograms of Tupac, Biggie, and Elvis.

    Luke poppin' bottles of Crystal with the butt of his light saber, Yoda freestyle battling Pac/Biggie with funky rhythms, and Obi tearing it up on the dance floor with the KIng.
     
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  2. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    Thanks for recapping. I would say that:

    1. Snoke was still very powerful but his overconfidence doomed him. Not really inconsistent. Also, the Death Star was built up as the greatest shit ever and it got destroyed. Twice. Bad guys, even the powerful ones, get owned.

    2. Phasma got to have her epic showdown. She was a bit forgotten, but I’m ok with her dying at this point. It was the machine of the First Order that gave her her power, so once that was destroyed, she wasn’t all that tough.

    3. This was an open question that was answered. She’s not a skywalker. Her parents were assholes. This answer was elegant and touching in my opinion. Maybe you didn’t like the answer?

    4. Hux was always a jumped-up asshole. Clearly thought he was smarter/better than he actually was. TLJ just played out the consequences.

    5. Poe could still pilot the shit out of everything. His impulsiveness and arrogance made him fuck up in TLJ. Not inconsistent with what we learned about him.

    6. I didn’t read Yoda as cranky. He seemed to be his usual wise but unconventional self. If anything, the prequel yoda was the inconsistent version.

    7. Her dumb flying in space didn’t seem all that powerful. It takes very little effort to drift in space. It still looked dumb and caused me to laugh out loud in the theater when everyone else was silent and grave.

    8. Light speed suicide is an extreme last resort tactic for a rebel force where every life/ship is precious. Actually not needed before because they always had a second option and managed to win in the end.

    Ta-daaa! Do you love the movie now?
     
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  3. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    1. It's not a matter of if his death was plausible (which I don't agree that it was). It's a matter of a mystery being introduced in one installment and then being disposed of in the next.

    2. Phasma was made out to be a somewhat prominent character, and was then taken pretty much nowhere.

    3. I don't mind Rey's parents being nobody, but again I mind her backstory being hinted at as being an important story line in one installment only to be pretty much arbitrarily dismissed in the next.

    4 Hux was not so much of an idiot in TFA to be caught up in a nonsensical 'can you hear me now' bit with Poe in TLJ, and that much of an idiot has no place leading a military armada.

    5.Yeah, Poe could pilot well, but as with Hux, that much of an idiot wouldn't have a place as a military leader. He wasn't described in TFA as a moron who would get so many other pilots killed or go on a lame mutiny. He became stupid in TLJ.

    6. Maybe Crank was the wrong word by me. Yoda was never a lighthearted cackling character until TLJ. He'd always been somber and sincere, until Rian Johnson decided otherwise.

    7. It's 450 degrees below zero Fahrenheit in space and there is no air. To keep yourself alive in that seems like it would take power on a level we'd never seen out of Leah (or any full Jedi, at least not in that way).
    8. Rebels always lose dozens of fighters in space battles when a lightspeed X-Wing could just take out a star destroyer. Weaponized lightspeed changes the physics of StarWars for the dumber.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  4. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    1. What you call disposed of, I consider resolved. It’s a good thing that he dies, dramatically speaking. Kylo gets to step into the role of lead villain, which is a great set up for the big conflict in the next one. And provided a real test for Rey when he asked her to join him.

    2. True

    3. Not arbitrary in my view, but dealt with in a way that challenges Rey and the audience. I love this answer to JJ’s lazy mystery from TFA.

    4. I loved these jokes and watching Poe get the better of Hux. It’s what Han would have done.

    5. I think he was just desperate and acted rashly and impulsively. Stupid yes, but it was believable to me.

    6. Yoda has mellowed since he became a ghost. I’m ok with it. He’s still teaching Luke the important lessons.

    7. Oh you must have missed the bit in the crawl where it said space is warm and bombs can fall downward in this sector.

    8. Rebels don’t suicide without exhausting all possible other options. Yeah they lost ships/soldiers before but they won those engagements so it wasn’t necessary. Also, maybe it was something only Holdo would have tried. If it was so obvious an option, the First Order would have not been so surprised by it, no?
     
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  5. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    Very good discussion @BillOhio @Boops @Merrick @ultrabike, et all. I'm enjoying the discussion and I like that you guys have gotten into specifics. My quick and dirty two cent take away is that I am willing to forgive most of the complaints that have been raised against TLJ, to a degree at least, but I have to agree that weaponized light speed seems like a Deus Ex Machina and it does seem to break the rules. The rest of it - things like force projecting Luke and cackling Yoda don't bother me so much.
     
  6. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    Some questions for you Star Wars physics and shield technology experts:

    + If an x-wing-sized ship rammed into a capital class starship at light speed, would it do enough damage to destroy or disable the larger ship?

    + Would it penetrate the larger ship's hull, leaving an entrance and exit wound? Or would the smaller ship just blast apart at the surface (or on the shields)? Consider the effect of an iron cannon ball hitting a large wooden ship vs. a cantaloupe traveling at the same speed.

    + If weaponized light speed was a tactic the rebels would have known about, would it work with a smaller ship or is it only possible with a ship of comparable mass and structural strength to what you are trying to destroy?
     
  7. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    It's been established that taking out the bridge on a destroyer will wipe out that ship. A light speed X-Wing ought to be able to do that every time.

    But why would it need to be a manned ship? Why not a light speed torpedo? The point is, Rian Johnson fugged up StarWars.
     
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  8. Ardacer

    Ardacer Almost "Made"

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    By TLJ logic, a smaller x-wing-size fighter could destroy a capital ship by ramming itself with it at light speed. Deflector shields or not.

    By any other episode this would not be possible. Deflector shields actually worked. Otherwise, capital ships are too vulnerable to make any sense. The ROTJ super start destroyer destruction was bullshit to, but it was not of TLJ proportions. In ROTJ a handful of fighters took out the bridge shield generators which sat there unprotected. Then a small A-wing traveling at attack speed rammed itself against the bridge and brought it down. It's bullshit because such as small ship should not have done that, and no capital ship should have it's deflector shield equipment relatively unprotected like that. But it's an artificial single point of failure that is recurrent in all SW episodes. With the exception of ESB. TLJ takes these issues to extreme ridiculous and comical levels.

    One problem is that writers placed the "Resistance" in too weak a position for the sake of an underdog narrative. The "New Order" has countless ships, and an effective and fully intact military. They can destroy entire systems in minutes if not seconds. By comparison, the "Resistance" is reduced to a handful of ships (like 10 or so) and not much else. This was the Galactic Republic just a few yeas ago, spanning multiple galaxies. WTF happened!? Well, nobody knows. This is one of the many backstory huge holes that plague this new series. By the end, the entire "Resistance" fits in the Millennium Falcon. It's ridiculous.

    Of course they need to rewrite the laws of physics in the SW worlds to survive. But this is no problem. The laws of physics in the TLJ have become extremely malleable. But in fact, they look more like a accidents and complete disregard for detail. Details that made SW such an interesting franchise in the past.

    Some of this could have been averted if the "Resistance" was a more believable, numerous, and meaningful movement requiring immediate attention as it was the case for the "Rebellion" which included numerous systems and Galactic politicians.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    The more important question is why the Mega Star Destroyer looks like uninspired derivative crap, compared to the Super Star Destroyer, first seen in ESB. Don't you guys remember when we got our first glimpse of the Executor in ESB... we like like ... wut wut wut... wut's that? That's fricking awesome!

    Super_Star_Destroyer_1.jpg
    ob_7bee5c_the-supremacy.jpeg
     
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    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  11. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Yes. Even now I can't get enough of the Executor Class Super Star Destroyer. It was a non single point of failure, effective, fuck-you-all flag ship in ESB (until it was ruined in ROTJ by bullshit).

    Furthermore. It was original. I don't remember seeing anything like that in any sci-fi film until then.

    By comparison TLJ has nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  12. GettingBuckets

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    Just jumping in on this conversation after reading through everything. I just wanted to say TLJ sucked ass.

    This was Rian Johnson and Disney's defense to all the hate and backlash against the movie and the lack of success of Solo:
    [​IMG]

    I am not surprised at all at Solo bombing. And it has nothing to do with how good or bad it was either. So many people were just pissed off after TLJ that any Star Wars movie made after it was going to do badly.

    Also, with Disney owning like 90% of media nowadays, of course there is going to be a bunch of paid reviewers/critics to defend and praise the direction that they are taking the franchise in. It reminds me of video game reviewers nowadays like with IGN and Gamespot, where half-ass garbage games that come from large franchises get good reviews because of money and sponsorships.

    The only thing I enjoyed from the TLJ was how Mark Hamill was passive aggressively trying to rip Rian Johnson to shreds during the whole press tour.
     
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  13. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    This was awesome stuff (specially around 1:25 were shit gets real!)

     
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  14. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    Why in the hell does a spaceship need wings? I’ve always given SW a pass on physics. But this is truly “ uninspired suckage”
    It looks like the flying wing from the late 1940’s. Must be a galaxy in a different universe.
     
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  15. fishski13

    fishski13 Friend

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    SW sux. Watch ST instead.
     
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  16. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    One step forward. Two steps back.





     
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  17. Ardacer

    Ardacer Almost "Made"

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    Rian Johnson just deleted 20k tweeter posts in light of that guy who directed Guardians getting fired. Interesting.
     
  18. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    Watched Solo last night. Turns out if you go in with extremely low expectations -- thank you SBAF! -- the movie is ok.

    All the dumb stuff is dumb:
    • Too many jokey-jokes. It should be someone's job to reduce the number of throwaway joke lines by half on the morning of the first day of shooting any SW film.
    • The card games. There is something fundamentally un-dramatic about watching a card game where you don't know the rules, can't recognize the cards, and have no concept of the value of what's in the pot.
    • The origin of Han's name. A comically stoopid moment that was not cool at all.
    • The big squid thing in the maelstrom. Why do they keep doing this thing with the giant creatures? Why do they always try to eat ships? It's so dumb.
    • Darth Maul. Someone I never expected to see again and did not need to. Why is he here? How come he can talk now?
    I found enough to like to make it enjoyable:
    • Alden Ehrenreich. Biggest surprise of the movie for me was that I actually liked him. He had an impossible job and did it well. I would watch him play this role again in a better movie. Loved Paul Bettany and Donald Glover too.
    • Costumes and production design. Wow. Love the way they keep iterating on the space / samurai / cowboy themes.
    • Cinematography. Beautifully photographed. Reminded me of the look of Rogue One. I'd love to see someone who knows more about this stuff explain what they are doing to differentiate these from the from the mainline trilogy films. The palettes are more subtle, edgier. I love it.
    • The train heist was cool.
    • The Falcon was dope, as expected. Is the escape pod trick something they made up for this movie to explain the gap in the front? Or was that always known?
    I probably won't ever watch this again, but I don't regret paying $6 to rent it. I still think Marv's version would have been better.
     
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  19. loki993

    loki993 Facebook Friend

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    I was excited about Solo since Han is probably my favorite character from Star Wars. For years I had hoped they would give us his backstory..until I realized we already knew everything we needed to know and we didn't need to see these things. We knew about the Kessel run, we knew how he got the ship, we knew about his origin, we didn't need to see it on a screen. On top of that when you do decide to put these things on screen people have expectations and will always draw comparisons. These are things that you can almost never live up to.

    These movies would be so much better if they focused on characters that we didn't know a lot about with main characters in the background or in a supporting role. I've said it before but this movie should have been about Lando and not Han and it could have been so much better if it did.

    They have since put them on hold but they were going to do a movie about Obi Wan and Boba Fett...They would have been the same thing, we know all we need to know about these characters, especially Obi Wan, I mean they basically had an entire series of movies focused on him at this point. ...a movie about him would just be silly. Boba Fett we know less about him but also we know what we need to know and the mystery is part of the appeal of the character...Also personally I don't get the obsession with Boba Fett anyway, but that's another thing.

    The sooner Disney gets away from the main core of characters from the trilogies the better. Once they start telling original stories, with unfamiliar characters within the star wars universe they may be able to make some decent movies. You open yourself up to too much comparison and criticism trying to do anything with characters we know. It's a lose lose situation creatively or quality wise....I mean the movies however bad will still print money for disney..so there's that...unfortunately. So for the foreseeable future we can count on Disney cashing in on that, but then that's just smart business...can't really fault then for that. Hopefully they throw in surprises along the way though.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  20. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    I think a better Han movie was possible, but that aside, I generally agree. These one-off movies are proving to me that the universe -- the look, the tech, the flavor, the world, the foundation -- is immersive, convincing, rich enough. They don't need the familiar characters. They should be taking the "A Star Wars Story" framing and running with it, not playing it so safe and ending up hamstringing themselves.
     
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