Topping DACs Part Deux

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by urbanjanitor, Feb 1, 2022.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n On vacation

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    Not everyone has heard all of the Topping DACs here; however enough people have heard enough of them, and magic eight ball tells us to stay away, far away. A added S, SE suffix, or a different number 30, 50, whatever, I doubt it makes a difference.

    The problem is that the Topping engineers use cookie-cutter designs from the DAC parts datasheets to max out AmirNAD (THD+N at full scale output, 1kHz steady state sine wave, measured with a 20kHz bandwidth). They could make better sounding gear if the were willing lose a few db of AmirNAD by choosing components that sounded best. There are also various tweaks and tricks to get the best out of the DA chips which are not in the datasheets. Finally, because of their cookie cutter designs, simply knowing the opamps and DA chips that Topping uses, I will more or less know how their DACs will sound like.

    EX5, DX3, D30, D70, D90SE on SBAF:

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/my-topping-ex5-review.11179/
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/topping-dx3-pro.7498/
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...measurements-and-subjective-impressions.6270/
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...nd-measurements-stream-of-consciousness.9318/
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...hile-dom-w-a-topping-d90se-mini-review.11358/
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
  2. purr1n

    purr1n On vacation

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    Reopening thread and changed thread title. Topping DACs are worthy of discussion, but not when buttheads are in the room. Butthead has been removed.
     
  3. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophileâ„¢

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  4. purr1n

    purr1n On vacation

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    We haven't had a ban a newcomer in who knows, how long. I really do not remember. However, we do have customs for how to behave, especially if you are new and we really don't know who you are. The reason for this is to prevent misunderstandings. We want to get to know you and you should really get to know us. This is out there for everyone to read: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/what-is-sbaf-10-articles-for-behavior.11637/

    As for toxic - yes, we dislike toxic communities, hence why we decided to ban you for behavior that indicates that you are and will continue to be a source of toxicity for SBAF. Over the years, the mods have gotten very good at detecting early signs of toxic posters and banning sooner rather than later to save us the grief.

    SBAF's goal isn't that much different. It's simply the opposite of the hive-mind (often newer people into audio) that prefers:

    The OverAccentuatedEtchyScratchyMacroDetailForwardInYourFacepushing "trick" [that] has gotten old for many now, no need to sell Topping's variant as something superior or even remotely good.

    This is intentional on the part of SBAF. We will not deny this. Actually, given SBAF's reputation on the far far more toxic /r/headphones, I don't understand why you would assume any differently.

    SBAF preferences and opinions are broad only within the confines of SBAF's homogeneous culture. The respected and trusted members, who have a lot of experience, participate in the loaner programs, and are understood by others from years of discussion, will have more leeway for going off the beaten path. Newer members will be put to a higher standard to explaining why something sounds likes ass. This can easily be accomplished by writing a paragraph or two comparing and contrasting. It's obvious to everyone when someone new puts forth authentic effort and such actions earn great respect.

    Think of us as like the small nations of Norway or Taiwan, with instilled customs and people. We are not the USA, CCCP, or PRC of audio forums and have never wanted to be. There are advantages and disadvantages to different approaches. HF has x100 more reach and your warnings of caution against SBAF would reach way more of the very people you are trying to save from our groupthink.

    It does have to be like that. Call this meritocracy. SBAF is not egalitarian. Not everyone gets an equal voice. This ain't Twitter or Instagram.

    In your case, someone disagreed with your asshole / opinion, and you reacted badly. TBH, you reacted badly (and screwing up someone else's thread) is what did you in, not your opinion.

    If you wanted a less homogenous more heterogeneous more egalitarian audio forum for discussion, I would recommend Head-Fi, rather than trying to change SBAF with your virtuous endeavors. In fact, I think you should start a thread on HF, warning of the dangers of groupthink, and citing SBAF as an example.

    --

    BTW, I totally understand why you would prefer the D70S over the MM. The MM is most colored and least technically capable of the Schiit DACs. People like the MM for specific qualities. Heck, even people who like the MM recognize where it has fallen short and have taken pains to modify it to improve its sound: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/hacking-schiit.11261/page-2#post-354907

    I haven't heard the xDuo TA30 tube amp, but I suspect the MM could be a bad match with the xDuo. I've been around enough to understand why people have different preferences. There are usually a ton of variables to consider and isolate.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
  5. MaxBuck

    MaxBuck Rando

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    For what it's worth, the D30 Pro sounds great to me. I'm using it in preamp mode, with balanced analog out via XLR to a NAD C298.
     
  6. Baten

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    It's pretty hard to botch a quad dac with cirrus logic chips ;) how low do you need to go in digital volume, for reference?
     
  7. MaxBuck

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    Not quite sure I can give you a number for digital volume (or gain; I'm still unclear just what the difference is). Analog gain on the D30Pro is typically set at -14 dB in preamp mode, and digital gain adjusted as needed in the Android app for my Bluesound Node.
     

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