Topping D30 DAC Measurements (and subjective impressions)

Discussion in 'Source Measurements' started by purr1n, May 7, 2018.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    Posting these earlier than I would like due to popular demand from my profile post here: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?members/purr1n.3/#profile-post-11929

    Impressions are initial. Subjectively does the Topping D30 sound like ass; and how does it compare to the S19? The S19 is a poser, a wannabe. The student artist who does have great ideas, but cannot draw, cannot execute. The S19 is an embarrassment. In contrast, the D30 does not aspire to anything, nor does it execute anything well. It is plain and it sucks. The stage flat, closed in, and everything sounds like it is rendered at the same volume. The only good thing is that it doesn't have that nasty timbre and artificial detail from the Sabre implementations of the past. It does measure pretty good though like any other decent DAC. I've provided Schiit Modi 2U (older version) for comparison. And no, the Schiit DACs do not measure like shit, at least in competent hands they do not.

    1kHz 0dbFS Topping D30
    Topping D30 1kHz.png

    1kHz 0dbFS Modi 2U
    Modi 2U 1kHz.png
     
    k1arg, bobsherman, Priidik and 7 others like this.
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    -30dbFS 1kHz

    Topping D30
    Topping D30 1kHz -30db.png

    Modi 2U
    Modi 2U 1kHz -30db.png

    Modi 2U ias a tiny bump at 60Hz. Topping D30 has small bumps at 120, 240, 360, 480Hz. All are too small to make a difference.
     
    Elnrik likes this.
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    -90dbFS 1kHz

    Topping D30
    Topping D30 1kHz -90db.png

    Modi 2U
    Modi 2U 1kHz -90db.png
     
    Cspirou and Elnrik like this.
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    1kHz THD+N measured in db from levels from -150dbFS to 0dbFS. This is kind of a nifty measurement that makes some thought, but not too much, to digest.

    Topping D30
    Topping D30 1kHz THDNdb.png


    Modi 2U
    Modi 2U 1kHz THDNdb.png
     
    Elnrik, Lyander and ultrabike like this.
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    P.S. I just realized not Sabre but CS4398 chip for the Topping D30. Makes total sense - didn't sound like Sabre to me. Cirrus chips sound boring. You guys can go back years and find a post on HF or CS where I listed a bunch of chips and described their sound. Yes, a big part of how DACs sound is actually based on the chips. There is a line of thought from some people who believe it's the implementation that matters most. This is only true to an extent. All the other parts (power supply, receiver, clock, etc.) matter, but they simply only help realize the sound of the digital to analog chip (or discrete ladder). A Jeep is still going to feel like a Jeep, whether you throw on it a Hemi engine, knobby tires, raised suspension, heavier duty suspension, etc.
     
    Psalmanazar, Josh83, Jinxy245 and 8 others like this.
  6. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,444
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    And no one cares.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    FWIW, I did the same 12kHz signal. Results are through coax.

    Topping D30
    Topping D30 12kHz.png

    Modi 2U
    Modi 2U 12kHz.png
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    Linearity results here, or "Amir bits". Pretty much the same. D30 has slightly hotter output.

    Modi 2U linearity
    Modi 2U Linearity.png

    D30
    D30 Linearity.png
     
    Cspirou likes this.
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    And now allow me to pull off an Amir:

    OMG! OMG! The Topping D30 has a defective SPDIF implementation!

    It's fine. We are not going to hear anything quieter than a mouse fart. And if FFTs told the whole story, the far higher noise floor and distortion from amps, headphones, and the environment are going to mask it.

    The dude is incompetent and rushes to conclusions too quickly. If he were a true scientist, he would solicit others and have them try to replicate his results. He's basically a commie scientist. As a disclaimer, I make no claims to science, nor did I ever say anything about the Modi 2U's subjective sound quality in this or related posts.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  11. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8,526
    Dislikes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Denver CO
    Home Page:
    That's a blatant insult to commie scientists everywhere.
     
    Vatnos, Josh83, LetMeBeFrank and 6 others like this.
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    True. Commie scientists did put people in orbit. Perhaps Czarist scientist is more appropriate.
     
  13. RatSalad

    RatSalad Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Likes Received:
    529
    Dislikes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NH
    Lots of smack being talked over there. Schiit has no customer support they are saying? That's hilarious, they've been awesome with me, they flat out answer any emails QUICK and late on weekends too.
     
    DanHowardArt likes this.
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    Did he test Topping's customer support?
     
    meowmixmeow, obsiCO, Josh83 and 5 others like this.
  15. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,813
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nobody answered the phone, but he measured the ringing tones coming through the telephone and they tested very well.
     
    weicheheck, bunkbail, rott and 20 others like this.
  16. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Just got a phishing call from topping customer support! Schiit customer support has always been top notch. I deal with a lot of vendors and 1/3 are just terrible but schiit always does the right thing and quickly rectifies the issue. Reading over a few posts on the Topping sponsored website, just looks like negative schiit bandwagoning going on over there. Am curious about the Topping 50 though and bought it to see what all the hype is about. I can send it over to the senior staff for a measuring showdown when it arrives.
     
  17. Shazb0t

    Shazb0t Rando

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Likes Received:
    9
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NJ
    Out of curiosity, I am a layman when it comes to these measurements, how come the tones around 12k are ramped up on the Modi versus the spike on the D30?
     
  18. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8,526
    Dislikes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Denver CO
    Home Page:
    @Shazb0t - Perhaps a more important question: why haven't you introduced yourself here? Please do.

    If you wanted to discern meaning from the measurements without appearing to be an Amirite, perhaps you should also ask: Why are there two anomalous humps in the the Topping measurements, and why is the Topping noise floor 25 to 50dBc higher?
     
  19. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    289
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sacramento
    As I have admitted elsewhere on the site, I am bit of a closet objectivist. I spent some time over on the asr site trying to get a feel for the "other" side of the argument and was also highly considering picking up a T50.

    However, in the middle of all of the circlejerking(which we are also guilty of, so no judgement) it comes out that the usb input wasn't isolated. I assumed that based on the way that site skewers Schiit products, typically for "issues" that are at or below the human threshold of hearing, there would have been an outcry when their messiah dac had an obvious engineering flaw. I don't know if anyone has dealt with a ground loop before, but it isn't something can argue subjectively about. It objectively ruins the sound.

    Anyways, all this to say, tribalism and whatnot.
     
    Josh83, Driven, Baten and 2 others like this.
  20. Shazb0t

    Shazb0t Rando

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Likes Received:
    9
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NJ
    Lol Amirites? Didn't know that was a thing. My main system DAC right now is a Modi Multibit if that tells you anything. From reading both posts that was the innocent question that I came up with, based on my layman interpretation of what I read. It seemed to me to be a feature of both sets of measurements. The noise floor measurements appear to not be in agreement. It's most likely the wrong question, but I am still curious. No harm intended.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
    Lyander, Cspirou and Hooncake like this.

Share This Page