Verum Audio - Exciting high performance DIY planar

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by cskippy, May 24, 2018.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    A tiny bit less resolving, but smoother; and at a minimum, just as much weight. Some of the latest and greatest hyper-thin membrane orthos may not have quite the same weight or may sound grainy or with steely timbre compared to the 70s stuff.
     
  2. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Yes, that could be achieved. But we need to move from the path "ultra thin mylar + ultra thin aluminium". I have several ideas (and even several working prototypes) of a reliable and extremely resolving driver. But it has resistance about 5 kOhm and need step up transformers. So it is a something in the middle between usual planar and electrostatic. But we'll talk about it only if Verum 1 will be supported by community.

    Everything in this world has limited lifespan. I can speak only for my creation - i'm trying to make it as reliable as I can. And I'm speaking not only about driver.

    Exactly. Nothing new - good old technologies but with modern methods of production. Verum is not an innovative product in any area. That's just a product where I'm trying to implement as many positive features from other planars as I can. + for sure really big driver. That's why I've achieved superb macro dynamics and speaker-like presentation. I do believe that producing good headphones in 2018 is not about new techniques, new materials or even new methods of moving the air.

    I'll try to explain my thoughts in old Russian parable. Hope my knowledge of English is enough to translate it properly:

    Old Jew is dying. Children is gathered around him.
    - Father! Before you die you've promised to us to tell the secret of very tasty tea only you know how to cook.
    - Jews, secret is simple! Don't skimp loose tea!

    So how to make decent product? Don't skimp loose tea! :D
     
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    For those asking: Seriously, don't stress the mentions of haze or resolution. I did mention these as nitpicks and only offered it up as a relative comparison against headphones that excel in this area. And said headphones have their own downsides, so...you know. Just how it goes.
     
  4. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    But I absolutely agree with you. Your review is exactly my thoughts about my creation. I'm trying not to speak about the sound of Verum. I prefer other people to do that instead of me. More trust, you know :D

    p.s. Any questions about construction or materials will be answered. I have a strong allergy on words like "patent pending" in such relatively simple area as audio gear.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Send it to me in two weeks?
     
  6. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Sure. If Hands will agree :D
     
  7. Kunlun

    Kunlun cat-alyzes cat-aclysmic cat-erwauling - Friend

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    I'll try to explain my thoughts in old Russian parable. Hope my knowledge of English is enough to translate it properly:

    Old Jew is dying. Children is gathered around him.
    - Father! Before you die you've promised to us to tell the secret of very tasty tea only you know how to cook.
    - Jews, secret is simple! Don't skimp loose tea!


    So the dad literally addresses his own children not by their names or kids or my children but just jews? That's a hardcore russian jewish father.

    Oh, and the father is dying and the kids are asking about his tea recipe (the secret of which is tea)?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
  8. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Not only children wanted to know the secret of tasty tea. There were some nephews and other very distant Jewish relatives in that room :D

    Anyway, hope the meaning wasn't lost during translation.
     
  9. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Exactly - secret of tasty tea is to use right amount of loose tea. Secret of tasty headphones is not to skimp on raw materials.
     
  10. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    @Garuspik I'm not as familiar with planar magnetic technology as many on here, I feel, but I might have interpreted the above as a jab at Certain Other audio manufacturers who make a point to market how very little mass their headphone (diaphragms) have. I'm aware that's likely not the case, as it seems beneath your character, but others may choose to think it as such.

    For however much it's worth, by the by, allowing the user to change image width via manufacturer-supplied dampening kits would be awesome!

    P.S.
    As far as SBAF is concerned you already seem to be a MOT, as per your custom title. Granted, you're still rather in development, never mind entering the production phase, but the fact of the matter seems to be that you plan to release a product in an already-competitive space, and your comments on peers, however well-intentioned, could be read as you talking others down.

    If there's one thing I've learned it's that nuances are easily lost on the internet :p
     
  11. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    I just express my thoughts about situation in audio market. That was started as a diy project where I've explained in details how to build such headphones. Ok, if community thinks that "mot" can't do that - so be it.
    P.s. Those who talk about how thin and low mass their membrane is often speaks about Mylar only and are silent about mass and thickness of conductive traces. And now I guess I can't talk about total membrane thickness of other very popular brand.
     
  12. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Not saying you can't comment on it, hell, many others (who likely DIY a lot of stuff too) do. Just wanted to give warning that there may be those who misread your intentions, as you're in the process of releasing what looks to be a great-value product. All I'm trying to say (besides "damn trying to communicate tone across the internet") is that you may wish to be a bit more circumspect in what you post lest some random Ballchinian on a forum start acting punitively.

    Personally, I'd love to hear your thoughts on how the mass of a diaphragm and that of the imprinted trace play off each other. If memory serves, the traces need to have a certain gauge (or was it that they need to cover enough surface area?) to be able to effectively conduct enough current through the array. Intuition says that a lower-mass diaphragm means that manufacturers can also reduce the mass of the traces, yes?

    I recently got to hear some rather nice planars, and fell in love with the HEK V2 (I think it was the V2 anyway). Aligning my impressions with those of others, I do agree that there seems to be something of an effervescent, "light" nature to the sound (which was pleasing), and I wonder how much of that is attributable to the low-mass array. Conversely, I have no idea how massive the diaphragms on a AZ PMX2 is, but I do recall noting (before something crapped out and the audio just cut out) that it had a more visceral quality than the HFM, though not aggressive; I'd mark the latter to be a function of tonal signature, whereas the former is more a matter of "weight", which I believe others here describe as "attack".
     
  13. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I can send it to him if you'd like me to.
     
  14. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Sure. The more competent opinions I'll have - the better final product will be. Elimination of peaks on THD in lower midrange section after conversation with @cskippy is one of examples.
     
  15. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

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    This project blows my mind.

    I like the idea of moving away from the thinnest possible diaphragms and all that stuff. Vintage orthos have good reputations, especially modded, and the most praised modern planars are the older generations with the looser thicker diaphragms. Everything has pros and cons, but the big names in Planar moved away from some really good things.
     
  16. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    It's like in cars - want the best possible 0-60 acceleration? twin-turbo\compressor with relatively small engine is your choice.
    But old good V8 still shines at really high speeds and 100-150 mph accelerations.
    That's absolutely true that Verum isn't among the most detailed sounding headphones, but it really excels in macro-dynamics. I've made a decision that I can't compete with "big boys " in that discipline and focused my attention on building biggest driver possible with high magnetic flux motor for that driver. Reward is dynamics, low bass extension and ability to play at any sane spl.
    From my point of view I've fulfilled the task I've set to myself.

    That project took so long cause (almost 2 years) cause the most complex task for the DIY-er is not a building 1 sample but to work out the project that is ready for building in series.

    @cskippy , @Hands, Zeos from Z reviews, @Audio Zenith , Headfonics - all of them has different samples. It's not the one unit travelling across the world. I wan't to show to community that I can consistently build what will be advertised soon ;)
     
  17. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

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    Yeah, I honestly like your idea better. There's a reason why people long for the "unicorn" LCD2 and the HE-500.
     
  18. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

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    Looking at the measurements, the only thing I would personally be wary of is the rise up to 3-4K. I think that could be dealt with using different pads though, it's an area that is often accentuated in pleather/leather ear pads, while being absorbed if the inside wall of the pad is velour/cloth. I would personally like to see a lambskin or pleather pad where the inside wall is some kind of cloth.
     
  19. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    Be reminded that you're seeing some pinna interactions in Hands' graphs, yours may behave differently.
    I measured a pair of flat-measuring studio monitors with my in-ear rig at the listening position and saw a kinda big (5+ dB) bump around those frequencies, whereas the wand microphone measured flat.
     
  20. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

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    I'm just used to assuming the compensation curve eats that up. If it's not really there, then it all looks really good :)
     

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