Are Audeze really that bad quality-wise?

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Yaroslav, Nov 17, 2015.

Tags:
  1. joeexp

    joeexp Don't ship this man FD-X1 ever

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    253
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London
    I bought my LCD-2s in January - in August the left Driver started to make problems.

    Fortunately for me, the dealer replaced the LCDs right away, no problem.
    The new replacement pair sounded a lot better as well. But you obviously don't have a few
    pairs lying around to compare them with.

    Now - yesterday the right driver of the replacement LCD-2s started to fail.

    I think Audeze has got serious reliability issues, from what I can tell ;-)
    Or Perhaps it's just bad luck. Since the LCD-2s have been around the longest, one would think, that they should have ironed out their problems by now!

    I like the sound of the LCD2s best - but obviously I am very disappointed.
    What should I get instead??

    The Ethers are nice but can't compete bass-wise….
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
  2. Bagged Milk

    Bagged Milk Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Minnesota
    What is it anyways with the Audeze drivers that makes them stop working? Crap soldering work? Does the driver magically self destruct?
    Has anyone tried just re-soldering the driver if they stop working to see if that's the issue?
     
  3. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hifiman something if you care about linear subbass and your amp is warm to dull the upper treble. Or you could go "cheap" with an HD 600/650 and wait and see what the HD 800S actually sounds likes.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,076
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    The pre-Fazor Audeze's had very fine traces and variability with diaphragm tension (not speculative, but shown in measurements of four different LCD-3 samples on Changstar.) I don't recall ever seeing diaphragm tears, but I would speculate that the traces would tear off the diaphragms or that there would be micro-fractures. DMM registering 0 ohms is the only evidence I've seen. This isn't different from any other ortho driver which has failed.
     
  5. Yaroslav

    Yaroslav New

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    8
    That is the best HD800 insult I've heard so far, "treble cannon" is down one position.
     
  6. joeexp

    joeexp Don't ship this man FD-X1 ever

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    253
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London
    1) Face Tweeter

    I like that!
     
  7. Works 4 Me

    Works 4 Me New

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Well the HD800 can "become" a reference level headphone,but that really only happens "after" you fix it. On top of that (for my taste) I feel you have to go beyond the "Anax" mod (unless this mod now acknowledges the 800 treble brightness really isn"t solely due to how it is just reproducing the actual treble response as it exists on the recording & gives you the steps to remove the parts that are causing this) (Which by the way only requires you work carefully to accomplish this; but does void the warranty).

    Hmmm... Treble Canon definitely fits here ,as Face Tweeter isn"t completely accurate as the HD800 "Redefines" the treble (That"s fine if you prefer Senns version of it I guess).

    Still considering the HD800 ? Well come on in, "Modding" is a rewarding activity . As Tyll says all you have to do is "Take Ownership" of your equipment & just "Get–r-done"
     
  8. joeexp

    joeexp Don't ship this man FD-X1 ever

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    253
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London
    Modding sounds a lot like "car-tuning". Only a very few people really do know what they are doing, it can seriously damage your car's performance and appearance and usually dramatically reduces the re-sell value.

    Not a very good proposition.
     
  9. TheBarnard

    TheBarnard Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    South Florida
    Audezes definitely had a driver problem on their hands, but apparently that has been fixed. Who knows, in waiting to get my 2s back right now.

    The anti-Audeze bandwagon on changstar is very strong though. Little 2db variations here and there cause many people to think they sound trash, but I don't think that's the case.

    It is also curious why the LCD2s of late seem to measure worse than LCD2.2s
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,076
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    It's not the 2db variations here or there. It's the radically different transient response characteristics from unit to unit. We are not talking about forum friends' headphones that we imagine hearing. We are taking about real headphones owned by real people who I actually know in real life. To date, I have not heard a single LCD2r2 which has the transient response of Craig's LCD2r2, or a single LCD3 which had the transient response of my 2nd LCD3 (which died in 48 hours). We have also heard LCD2s and LCD3s with horrible transient response characteristics which sounded veiled and mushy. Simply ask @Questhate , @Ringingears ears, and @Bill-P. You can ask Bill, who modded his grade D LCD2 into something slightly brighter, and then compared it to Craig's. Bill's LCD2 still sounded like ass. It was like a different headphone.

    We are not anti-Audeze as much as anti-excessive pricing for craptastically-variable-quality. Things are a lot different when you can hear the differences in the field vs. Internet bullshitting. People seem to forget that these are fricking $1000-$2000 premium headphones.

    With the new Fazors, the diaphragm and traces are slightly different. As some have indicated, the timbre is a bit more plasticky. Some like @Hands feel they are a bit more peaky. It's been rumored that the new diaphragms were meant to improve reliability. The new Fazor stuff doesn't sound as good as the grade A or grade B LCD2r2 or LCD3s, but generally sounds better than grade C pre-fazor units, which were the majority of what I've heard in the field at meets.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
  11. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    If you look closely at Tyll's measurements, I'm fairly certain you often see more than just "little 2dB variations here and there."
     
  12. Yaroslav

    Yaroslav New

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Wow, yup, that's the type of response I was craving for. What do you think are the best alternative options in that range? I do definitely agree with you that for $1-2K you'd expect a little bit more consistency (that's what I tried to say in my original message).
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,076
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I don't want to turn you off Audeze headphones. If what you heard was a Fazor, I think that if you buy one today, you will get pretty much get what you heard. My suspicion (not based on any data because I don't have any for Fazor) is that Audeze didn't quite have it together yet with the early Fazors. I had in my possession an early LCD-X which sounded lean and otherwise not as as good as a pair that WarrenPeachy once brought to a meet. I actually liked Warren's LCD-X quite a bit.

    The ones I've heard in the field at the meets have been pretty consistent in the past year. That being said, I would still order from a dealer just in case. Audeze service is second to none. They have been fantastic to me and fantastic with everyone else I know who has had an issue. But since you live near Santa Claus, it's going to cost you $100 shipping and two-three weeks transit time to get them repaired, (not to mention that your customs people might want to borrow them for another month) so not a good idea to buy directly.

    The other possibility would be an HE-6 if you don't mind modding them. I think you would really like @Clemmaster's specific mods given your preference for what you described. Clem's mods eliminate the treble etch of the HE-6 add a bit of warmth and body. Yet another possibility is the Abyss, but that is a $3500+ headphone with medieval ergonomics (yet good comfort).

    P.S. Credit for "face-tweeter" goes to Whitney / Rhythmdevils. It has been used both as a term of endearment and ridicule for the HD800 at CS and here. No one takes things personally here when it comes to gear. Finally, I suspect that no amount of modding or even the new HD800S will make you like the HD800s, unless your tastes change over time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
  14. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Yup, I had first heard it from RD but I had just assumed it was standard CS jargon. :)

    Not sure if it has been mentioned, but speaking of hifiman phones and modding, if you can find a code-x in the used market, I have only heard good things.
     
  15. Bagged Milk

    Bagged Milk Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Minnesota
    What is there to get about headphone modding? For some cans, just a bit of damping material in the back of the cup makes a big difference. And it doesn't take a genius to open the cups on most headphones and apply said materials.
     
  16. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Is there a linky to that ? Can't seem to find it anywhere.
     
  17. Yaroslav

    Yaroslav New

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Thanks for the answers everybody, after auditioning Audeze vs. Sennheiser for the 3rd time and Audeze LCD-2.2f all sounding like different units (one was veiled, one was much more "neutral")...

    I've ended up with HD800, picture effin related. Anax mod pending.

    Surprisingly, I don't hate those straight out Chord Mojo.
     
  18. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,804
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Just to be fair, my LCD-2 sounded like the left driver was dying one day, and then it turned out the stock cable that Audeze shipped with the headphone was somehow really bad, so a cable swap was all that was needed for tip-top performance again.

    However, it still sounded like ass as Marv said. Drastic measures had to be taken for me to bring it back to about a C grade, but an A grade LCD-2 is still substantially better.

    At this point in time, I think... if you'd like a sound similar to the LCD-2, you may well try to find a used pair of HE-6. It's about the same price, and it's much better sounding IMO.
     
  19. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Estonia
    I was really hoping that i'd like their sound. I got to auditon both LCD-2F and LCD-3F through my own system and I'd put them on bar with something like HE-400 (original). HE-400i for example is noticeably better to my ears. These sampled Audezes are not contenders for totl status. I quess I got to hear bell curve (that must be a broad curve) beginning samples.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    90,076
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Does anyone have a Fazor that I can measure? I'll measure Craig's uber LCD-2r2 for comparison.
     

Share This Page