Audio Nirvana 'Classic 15 Alnico' Full Range Drivers

Discussion in 'DIY' started by winders, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Does one need to actually test drive a Toyota Tacoma to know that it will suck going around a small low speed track like the Streets of Willow?
     
  2. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    2 days off for noise and for being the audio world equivalent of an anti-vaxxer
     
  3. realityFAN

    realityFAN New

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    It’s funny you’d pick those two cars... the 911 is famous for being an incredible car DESPITE going against many assumed laws of physics. They also are famous on the rally circuits (off road). At the same time, back in the biggest heyday the 911 ever had... out comes two of the fastest and most capable trucks RIGHT OFF THE DEALER FLOOR... and could give the 911 a very serious challenge. There was, in fact, a guy who made a boatload off drag racing his truck against mostly Ferraris. His truck was dead stock! No tuning whatsoever! He always won...

    You just accidentally...masterfully...beautifully... proved how wrong a person can be when all they do is sit in their armchair and keyboard warrior their way into confusion, having their mistaken assumptions tell them what they should be hearing... but never really hearing nor having a valid opinion on anything!

    I have a pair of the classic 15” Alnico because I laughed at the clownery of his online claims, but realized I don’t know everything and that the common prejudices in audio circles never met reality anyway... so I had an honest listen and they play music in a way that nothing else can.

    All of what you’ve been fed isn’t based on science, but mostly marketing and competition for the always shrinking number of audio dollars out there being spent! So they have you fooled real well!

    Audio Nirvana is the Porsche of driver-makers; David doesn’t care what you think the physics ought to be and how the world should spin if the ad writers had their way... he just doesn’t. He set out to find something that works. He spent decades figuring it out and another couple decades since then refining them and ever learning how to make them better and better, from feedback he gets from his listeners. He has a marvelous accomplishment here... exactly like what Porsche did with the 911. Until you drive one, they make no sense...

    But once you drive a 911, you know how wrong your assumptions can be. When you hear an AN speaker that has been properly designed and integrated, you won’t believe it.

    I will say this... David is a master driver maker, but I disagree with his views on cabinet design. He wants it to be easy for everybody, but these drivers deserve proper enclosures and careful attention to vibration mitigation to really make them sing! They can do good things in a cardboard box... no joke. But they become magic when treated right!
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
  4. realityFAN

    realityFAN New

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    The people who don’t like AN drivers typically haven’t heard them in a proper cabinet, on good electronics and proper recordings. They are revealing the weak links in other areas, not themselves.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
  5. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Why?
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    This is true for everything though. I don't think you have to worry about much because most folks here, at least the people who have been around really do understand that the system needs to act as a whole. We are the chefs that must put the ingredients together. Some here are nuts enough to know enough about specific masters or vinyl pressings.

    Generally, I find efficient drivers with high Qms (pliable surrounds and spiders) to be revealing.

    This is tradeoffs. Single driver vs multi-way vs horns. It sounds like you making excuses, downplaying for one trade-off (narrow dispersion) but over exaggerating the negative effects of the other.

    I think this is the crux of it. Unlike other audiophile sites. People here listen to wide variety of music, much of it includes rock or pop.

    Not at all. To expand on your point, we know that a speaker will not act as perfect piston, however we would like it to act as a perfect piston throughout as much as the audio range as possible. Hence, this is my argument against pushing wide-banders to 12" or 15". Things start to get ugly in the highs after 6.5" or 8" already. Not acting as a piston means distortion, both linear (frequency response) and non-linear (harmonic and intermodulation)

    If the 10" already looks like this in the highs, the 15" is going to be worse.
    upload_2022-4-9_9-58-44.png

    I think what it comes down is priority. Smooth frequency response with a minimum of peaks in the highs is a priority for listeners here. Also, last octave extension is desired. As you mentioned, there aren't for rock. Note lack of any highs past 11kHz. I haven't lost that much hearing yet. And no, Alnico won't fix the frequency response issues.

    I'm OK with screwy frequency response with wide-banders, this is part of the trade off, but this is too much!

    15" Ferrite
    upload_2022-4-9_10-2-19.png

    Not really, because all did you was write superfluous prose. If you are an expert on these, comparisons to other well known wide-banders, Lowther, Voxactiv, Fostex, would have been more helpful. Perhaps FR measurements on the perfect set up (proper angle / toe-in).

    The issue with what you wrote is that one could literally replace "Alnico 15" with "Driver X", "Driver Y", or "Your Mom", and the read would still make sense depending upon a POV. In essence, we've learned nothing about the Alnico 15". It just sort of came off as "These are awesome, and if they suck, then you are dumb, have shitty gear, or listen to rap or rock". The "Capice‽" touch makes you come off as a thug.

    FWIW, the OP ditched these and I think moved on Klipsch La Scalas. I do think it was a good effort to at least try it out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Uh no. The original 911 was air cooled and had the motor hanging way behind the rear axle. Still, rear engine > front engine. Physics with acceleration (weight in back is good) and braking (weight in back is good)

    The modern 911 is water cooled, the engineers moved the motor more forward while keeping it slightly behind the rear axle for reasons of "tradition". Porsche added electronic band-aids, really good ones, that would smooth output in case the driver did something dumb like suddenly lift the gas while turning (causing a spin). Also Porsche has since added massive power ~500hp for the GT3. The modern 911's performance is 100% according to the laws of physics.

    That being said, the Cayman GT4 is a better car IMO. Mid-engined and lighter. Physics still wins the day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
  8. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    I found these german oval speakers in a dumpster and they sound much better than the audio nirvanas, cabinet or no cabinet

    [​IMG]
     
  9. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    I found these Zenith console drivers in a dumpster and they also sound much better than the audio nirvanas, cabinet or no cabinet.

     
  10. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    I found these lowther PM5a (not in a dumpster) to also sound much better than the audio nirvanas. in other words, the audio nirvanas belong in a dumpster.

    of the small 'full-range' drivers with whizzers I will take fostex for new-made and lowther for vintage (duh). the most esoteric douchey stuff like voxativ, cube and feastrex are just expensive mistakes and man-handled in most areas of music reproduction by inexpensive and common vintage speakers made by Isophon, Grundig, Philips, etc.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. winders

    winders boomer

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    Your opinion is not born out by the on track performance. The Cayman GT4 RS has McPherson strut suspension at all four corners while the 992 GT3 has double wishbone front suspension and multi link rear suspension. The is a massive handicap for the Cayman.

    The 992 does better both accelerating and braking. Also, it is a harder car to spin at the limit. In other words, it is more forgiving at the limit and thus easier to drive at the limit. Once a Cayman starts to go, it is MUCH harder to hold on to.

    As a racer, I would pick the 992 GT3 over a Cayman GT4 RS every time. Most racers I know would do the same. It gets even worse when you compare the Cayman GT4 RS CS to the 992 GT3 Cup Car….the 992 Cup is way better.
     
  12. TimbreJunkie

    TimbreJunkie New

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    What frequency was the bass knob set to? The vocals sounded so much better with it turned up all the way.
     
  13. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    not sure. you hear it that way because the drivers are playing without a cabinet and thus lack low mids which would otherwise be filled in by sympathetic cabinet resonances.
     
  14. Woland

    Woland Friend

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    I'm amazed at what the 3" Faital Pro full range drivers are able to deliver. I'm not sure what, if anything, other drivers will do in comparison. New Lowthers are around 10x the price, new Voxativ around 100x the price. Is there a sensible Fostex to try? I'm thinking to wire a couple of drivers in series into a mini Karlsonator or line array.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2022
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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  16. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    for 3” the Orca measurements might help

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ostex-p1000-bh-measurements.6543/#post-215702
     

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