Insurance, shipping, and other requirements for loaners

Discussion in 'Loaner Programs' started by purr1n, May 23, 2016.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    72,374
    Dislikes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    1. If under $500, no insurance. Otherwise insure for 50% of value over $500.
    2. Use SIGNATURE CONFIRM
    3. FedEx or UPS preferred
    4. NO USPS for items over $500, aka United States Postal Service
    5. Must give two cents in loaner thread or gear thread. If you are shy, two sentences in the loaner thread will do.
    6. Do NOT, in any circumstances, make any modifications to the loaner.
    Original Post:

    I am proposing that we drop the insurance requirement for loaners and self-insure our packages. The reason is that collecting insurance can be extremely difficult process, and if something does get lost, the process could be quite convoluted and time consuming. I figure we can self-insure by building up an insurance reserve with each person on a loaner sending in $5 per item (or maybe according to a schedule based on item cost) until we build up to a reserve of $2k, and then discontinue the "premium" or lower it to $1.

    As with the SBAF donations and expenditures, I will make the transactions and reserve account status transparent to "Friends".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2019
    Grattle, Lyander, recarcar and 11 others like this.
  2. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,222
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Boston
    As someone who just went through the USPS process on a $1k+ item (non-loaner related), I would support something like this. The process took 3 months, I was denied twice cryptically with little to no communication from USPS, and finally got it on the final allowed appeal after putting together an incredible package of information and documents. It takes a lot of work on both the part of the sender and receiver, and I'm not exactly confident in their process to get "lucky" a second time.

    Also they didn't give me back the shipping and insurance cost, just the exact amount I purchased the item for
     
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Friend MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    11,702
    Dislikes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    I am on board with this idea.
     
  4. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please.

    It took USPS two weeks to just reimburse me for an unused shipping label. I can't fathom what the insurance collection process is like.
     
    imackler likes this.
  5. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

    Staff Member Friend IEMW
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,682
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Clear, clear water
    This is a great idea. I support it.
     
  6. velvetx

    velvetx Gear Master West/Vendor Spotlight Moderator

    Staff Member Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,096
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    sounds good.
     
  7. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,469
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    It took me 5 months with Canadapost and a pooched SR007, during which time: the claims officer went on vacation, the next one "misplaced" the papers, they literally lost the 007 that was sent back to them for inspection, and then "closed" the case without informing us because it was "inactive" for too long without us complaining about it.
     
    Bagged Milk and PoochZag like this.
  8. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,732
    Dislikes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Where would we send the money for insurance? Is there a SBAF paypal account set up to forward the cash to?
     
  9. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,173
    Dislikes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Das ist gut. Reliable protection.

    It'll take a while to get the fund up to size though. At least with current participation rates and low premiums, but in the long run it'll protect SBAF operating funds.
     
  10. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    E. Lansing, MI
    A self-funded plan is always more reliable on a scale like this. I would suggest letting the gear master for that specific tour being in charge of collecting premiums before the gear goes out, then transferring the insurance to SBAF fund. Keeps things honest, keeps interest legit, and reduces minutiae that marv has to deal with... unless the gear masters fuck us over after seeing all those e-Lincolns come streaming in...
     
  11. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    944
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    CA
    I am on board with this, too. This also spreads the work around, gets money from those interested and cuts all the hassles when needed, odds are somethings' gonna disappear. Time for ground rules on loaners to get updated.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  12. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    642
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think this is a very good idea. Personally, I have shied away from certain heavier and more expensive items on loner tours because when you combine weight freight cost and insurance the loaner became quite expensive and exceeded my interest level. Over time, and when an adequate reserve has been built up, I think the self-insurance fee per loan can become quite reasonable. But at the outset it should probably be the same as the carrier insurance would have been, which will help the reserve fund build up quickly without the participants in the loaner tour being any worse off. I think insurance on some of the more premium items may run $10-20, which will allow the fund to build up at a decent pace.

    Also, perhaps charge the fee at the outset as a requirement to participate in the tour rather than waiting until a participant's turn with the gear. In addition to helping build up the self-insurance fund more quickly, it shows a level of commitment to that tour as well as SBAF generally.
     
  13. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,503
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    U.S.
    I think this is a great idea. Beats having to rely on hit and miss insurance claims through shipping providers.
     
  14. Mikoss

    Mikoss Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,091
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm on board with this idea, if we ever get loaners going in Canada... the problem being that anything sent from the USA to us, we pay taxes on the full MSRP. Also important to note that the max insurance we can even purchase for shipping items to the USA is fairly limited. (When I sold my LCD-3's, I believe the max coverage was $1000 CAD, and cost quite a lot).

    One thing that Canada Post does awesome with is their on time guarantee. As long as the shipping is sent with the guarantee, if it's delayed for any reason (including customs), you get the full delivery price refunded. I've had the last three items I sent via Canada Post/Fedex and Canada Post/USPS delayed by a day or two, so the shipping ended up being free. I had the refund cheque within two weeks, except the last time I had to call them back twice to get the cheque issued.
     
  15. DrForBin

    DrForBin Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    475
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    The Great NorthWet
    hello,

    any loaner i have shipped USPS has always been with insurance for MSRP. the problem is i really don't know how we could collect on it when the inevitable happens.

    at one point i was told by the USPS person that i would need to provide a valid receipt to collect if my shipment went astray. as the headphones weren't mine i sure as hell couldn't do that. does everyone here hang on to their original receipts? would i send the insurance tracking number to the owner and then let them fight with USPS to be made whole?

    let's get this self-insurance thing going as soon as possible.:)
     
  16. Tim Thomas

    Tim Thomas Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    267
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Detroit Area
  17. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,222
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Boston
    Any update on this, and where I can send some money if it's a go?

    I've had a couple of loaners recently and wouldn't mind to start chipping in to grow the pot.
     
    Wfojas, DrForBin and Pyruvate like this.
  18. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,173
    Dislikes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @Marvey - let's spool this up. What do you prefer for collecting funds? Options I see:
    • Use the SBAF GoFundMe page w. loaner and username in the comment line.
    • Set up a new GoFundMe page
    • Have one of us collect funds on Paypal, and FW to you.
    For the Sony IEMs about to go around, I'd say $10 each.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    72,374
    Dislikes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    You guys collect the funds in PayPal and forward to me in batches. Once we build up to a certain amount in reserves, We can stop asking for money. GFM steals too much money. As with the donations, the state of the funds will be made available to Friends.
     
  20. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,718
    Dislikes Received:
    139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This or Fed Ex/UPS.
     

Share This Page