JAR600V2 impressions thread

V2 and VB are used interchangeably here. It's the same thing but in conversation with Jupiter we've both called the mod V2 and VB. On the JAR website it's called VB. It's also the second version he's made but because it's so different from the OG and not necessarily better (just totally different), he calls it VB... most of the time.

We're currently kicking off a tour of the JAR600VB along with a pair of OG JAR600. This is the impressions thread where loaner participants can say what they think about both headphones. I'll start.

I've lived with the OG JAR600 (mine is a silver screen HD600 variant) for awhile. I just got my new JAR600VB (black screen HD600 variant) days ago. Since Jupiter is heading back to college soon and his modding output will be reduced (read longer lead times), I wanted to get this tour cracking as soon as possible.

Much has been said on this site about the OG JAR600, but I'll give a quick rundown:
I can't listen to a regular HD600. It's way too bright and stabby to my ears. JAR600 takes the heat off the top end and tonally leans it a smidge towards an HD650, while tightening up the bass and also giving it more thump. This is basically exactly what has to happen in order for me to enjoy an HD600, so this mod is perfect for me.

With the new VB mod, talking to Jupiter he said there was a different goal, and I think he knocked it out of the park. He was trying to let us hear the driver instead of the various other things that get in the way and generally shape the sound of the headphone, while still taming the upper end stabbiness. Listening to the VB, it has increased clarity and detail, a larger headstage, and a much more direct feel. The headphone seems to get out of the way and let more musical information through. It's impressive. To me, that brings it closer to HD800 level in a few ways (I'm a fan of the HD800. If you're not, maybe you prefer OG version.)

I think if you have a very resolving system you will appreciate what he has done with VB. I will say though that each version plays to different strengths in systems. If you have a bright, lean SS system you may prefer the OG. If you have a tubey, little bit bloomy, little bit laid back system you may prefer the VB. I really enjoy both on my system. I believe my system to be rather balanced, so that makes sense to me.

We'll see what y'all think.

 

I'd like to first thank @Erroneous for shipping both his JAR600v1/OG and JAR600B/v2, which I got to try out of my LAuX (definitely not the best pairing) and also from the Nitsch Piety (so good a pairing that it goes toe-to-toe with my LAuX > LCD-X, thank you @Slade01 for the loaner!).



I listened to the JAR600v1 first, so I'd like to start there with some quick impressions and then compare the v2/B with the OG mods. I have nothing in the Sennheiser family to compare either JAR variants to except the HD6XX (stock, had a couple months ago before selling after I got a pair of LCD-X) and the HD800SDR (distant memory by now), so this is why I am doing the baseline v1 vs v2 format (first impressions with the LAUX, Piety impressions down below):

So—off to it—the JAR600 v1/OG:

• Neutral tonality and response
• Excellent blackground
• Lack of graininess/muddiness at normal volumes, very smooth
• Very upfront mids, the female vocal range is superbly represented
• Can crank it up without fatigue, which can’t say about stock HD6XX or stock LCD-X
• Taut bass, well-articulated, extension feels to fall pretty deep into the mix, not at all boomy/woolly, loose, limp (like the HD6XX), although softer than the lcd-x of course
• Center image more well-defined than HD6XX, less 3-blob-y, less panned, more out of your head
• Quicker transient response than HD6XX
• Great for intimate folk, indie folk and folk rock genres, feels like a warm campfire singalong
• Listening to podcasts/YouTube videos is way more enjoyable than LCD-X
• Addictive midrange
• A bit of treble grain at higher SPLs

The JAR600B / v2, which I have spent much more time with vs the v1:

• Way more open
• Still intimate but entire soundscape is opened up to a large degree
• Soundstage increase, wider by a considerable margin
• Treble response lifted
• Vocal placement changes, more pinpoint, but weirdly to the right (probably just hearing the mix here)
• Imaging better
• Heftier, drum kicks sound more real in timbre and bassiness
• Bass texture is better
• Actually good for classical music
• Less dull, muted, veiled, anemic, whatever you want to call it
• Vocals clearer
• Better timbre, subjectively
• Faster than v1
• Better for a wider variety of genres
• Some songs just don't jive with the v1, can let Tidal shuffle songs and not change them w the JAR600B
• Competes with LCD-X in certain areas
• More air
• More incisive
• Can feel snare, drum hits
• Busier passages of music are rendered more elegantly
• Bass seems elevated in general
• Guitars have “bite” and “edge”
• Can turn up with less treble grain

Pros for both (aside from the glowing positives above)

• Don’t hear the infamous 600 “shout” on either
• Compared to stock HD6XX, which is very in your head and L-R panned—no phantom center image—the JAR600B has a center image and is less inside head/between head

Cons for both

• Some grain, amp-dependent (exhibits this trait on my LAuX but not the Piety, somehow it’s smoother on the Piety, trade some grain for a little splash)
• That's really it. From the Piety, I cannot detect any other glaring/big cons or faults of the JAR600B—it's an incredible headphone, both technically and emotionally

From the Nitsch x Schiit Magni Piety

• This headphone entirely transforms via the Piety, from highs to lows and timbre to texture, up and down, all around, this combo is indescribably good. Forgive me for being hyperbolic, but this price : performance ratio is off-the-charts, and new toy syndrome may be hitting, but from the Piety, the JAR600B hits harder
• Piety + 600B is a fucking powerhouse, it easily rivals, in almost all areas except for slam, resolve and microdetail (this one could easily be subjective) my LAuX + LCD-X combo
• Only miss bass response, overall resolution & imaging/separation from LCD-X, otherwise the JAR600B has better timbre, non-fatiguing tonality, and midrange for vocals, esp. female vocals
• The midrange of the JAR600B on the Piety is truly amazing
• Has an addictive, one-more-song quality, from the easygoing-ness of the tonality but also the JAR600B's decadently rich timbre and texture
• I haven't reached for my LCD-X since I received the Piety on loan, it's been non-stop JAR600B > Piety, and that says a lot, as I consider myself a planar guy...

Spoiler: vs LCD-X

vs LCD-X (un-EQ'ed)

• LCD-X has a better sense of timing and rhythm, falls into a groove and rides the wave, nimbler
• JAR600B makes me realize how thick the timbre on lcd-x is, it’s much lighter both JAR600 variants, but I think I might prefer the timbre from the JAR600B overall
• LCD-X has a blacker background, sounds seem to emanate from nowhere, the space in which individual notes linger is bigger
• More upfront sounding

vs LCD-X (EQ’d)

• You're gonna call me crazy, but I can hear the breath through a singer’s missing tooth, that’s the level of tiny detail we’re talking about here

Spoiler: vs RD-X

vs RD-X

My audio memory of this hp is rather fuzzy since it’s been around 5 months since I’ve heard it, but from memory:

• the RD-X outshines the JAR variants on all levels:
• gone is the treble fuckery of the stock X, its timbral weirdness, and most importantly its need for eq/tone control
• It literally sounds like someone 650’d an LCD-X, which is to say, in my biased opinion, as close to perfection as $1775 can get you in headphones
• Yes, the RD-4 is better, I’ve demoed it too, but the RD-X is the value king here, as is the JAR600B when it comes to the JAR600v1 vs v2 debate (and imho, the JAR600B is better regardless of price)

Conclusion

I think I am actually going to hunt for a black screen HD600 for Jupiter to mod and try to find a way to get a Piety, this headphone is that good. I don't need a secondary system, but i might downsize to that setup.

It's easily my 3rd favorite headphone, with the RD-X taking the top spot and the stock LCD-X in second. It's so good that—even though it's not better than the stock LCD-X—from the Piety, I actually do like it better for some tracks after extensively demoing it over 3 days straight (10+ hours per day) .

To use a rating system from a certain online music publication owned by Condé Nast that tries to be "objective", if the RD-X is an 8.8 (from the LAuX) and the stock LCD-X is a 7.9 (also from the LAuX), the JAR600B is a 7.7 (from the Piety)—they're that close. Feed the JAR600B garbage, in my case, the LAuX then the score drops to a 6.2, synergy is that sensitive with this headphone (as with all headphones, but the Liquid Gold X is particularly not well-suited to high impedance dynamics).

Knowing the scaling ability of the 6X0 family, I could easily see myself placing an "objective" rating for the JAR600B higher—if heard off an EC or DNA, better Cavalli, or even a better Woo, amp—than the stock LCD-X, perhaps... even higher than the RD-X.

With the right amp, this is a wholeheartedly recommended headphone for anyone who wants romance but also technicalities, a 6X0 headphone that hits harder, and rich timbre, texture & vocals.

 

Great Impressions @caute. I'm getting quite a similar set of impressions with my JAR650 V1/V2 loaner right now. Same with your Piety impressions. It's actually a really solid pairing with the 650. Can't wait to hear the 600's.

There are presentation differences for sure between the two sets. One leans more traditional HD650 with punch and the other leans towards HD800 presentation with amazing imaging and stage size.

 

Hopefully not derailing or thread crapping, but is there a v1 thread - search yielded nothing.

If not, would it be fine with @Erroneous and mods to rename this as the JAR600 thread?

If it exists, I'll request mods delete this post to clean the thread back up.

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/jar-hd600-impressions-and-measurements.8172/

 

I'll give my brief and unprofessional impressions of both the JAR600 OG and VB. Won't go so much into pros and cons, I'll let you read between the lines. Anytime I say 600 or 650, I am referring to the unmodded headphones. My chain is Pi2AES > Gungnir A1 > SW51+ (stock tubes).

OG (V1)

• Actually sounds like a high-performance blend of the 600 and 650. Lusher sound like 650, but tonally much more similar to 600 (IMO a good thing).
• A little more mellow than 600, easy to crank the volume without pain. Great for all day relaxed listening and deep listening.
  
• Notes hit with a weight and presence that is not present on 600, music sounds more meaty.
• A lot more clarity, particularly in the bass which is more filled out. These are more technically proficient than 600 or 650.
• Super versatile genre-wise. They can really groove as well as capture the air needed for classical music.
• Imaging is a little more precise than 600, soundstage a little less blobby. Still clearly derived from 600 in this aspect.
• Still essentially sounds like headphones

VB (V2)

• Very unique sound for a dynamic driver. Sounds like it combines planar clarity with dynamic tone and weight.
• Not mellow, but also not particularly fatiguing (little more than OG, less than 600). I can relax to it, but I find that this really rewards active listening.
• Notes don't hit as hard as OG, but they feel lithe and athletic. There is a greater clarity in the whole picture than 600 or even OG.
  
• The amount of air and space between notes is extremely addicting. Previously claustrophobic tracks can finally breathe. Musical lines never seem to crowd each other.
• Noticeably less present bass than OG, although still quite clean compared to 600. Performs well in most genres, but might not be the best for bass driven ones. Your chain will likely make a big difference here (Tried Mjolnir 1 which filled out the bass, still preferred spaciousness of SW51+).
  
• Insanely good technical ability for the price. Combination of electrostatic like clarity and delineation along with the established resolving and scaling ability of 6xx line.
• Imaging ability is unbelievably precise (top-tier honestly), much better than 600 and OG. Music sounds like it is from farther back in the seats than 600 or OG.
• Sometimes can make me forget that I'm listening to headphones

Edit: SW51+ impressions from low Z output, which I almost always prefer. High Z makes bass more prominent (quite nice with VB) but it becomes more woolly and sound is overall more claustrophobic. Certainly worth trying both outputs if you can.

Final Thoughts
I am very grateful to Erroneous for organizing this wonderful loaner and generously lending these headphones. I also have to applaud Jupiter for his success in making such fantastic improvements on this classic. Both of them were wonderful, and it would be difficult for me to pick a favorite. With a gun held to my head, I would probably pick the VB (V2), because I find it to be more unique and special, and it is considerably less expensive and difficult to make (Correction: not easier to make). The OG is the perfect choice for those that essentially want to still have a 600 but better/fixed. I could personally live with either one as my only headphone.

 

Thank you for allowing me to participate in this loaner. I apologize for the delayed impressions for the 600's compared to the 650's. Sometimes health hits ya.

Much of what I said for the JAR650OG and JAR650B translates similarly to the JAR600OG and JAR600B. The OG has a specific goal and the B has a different goal.

System - Pi2AES -> SFD-1 Mk2 -> Schiit Vali 2+ & Schiit Piety

Much of what has been said above is VERY true. I can't find anything in the previous reviews that goes against what I've heard.

The JAR600OG almost fits right in-between the JAR650OG and the JAR650B. The JAR600OG is a "super" HD600, with all the slight niggles smoothed out and bringing you deeper into the music with the improved imaging and clarity. Very even keeled. Grainy in the bass, but still more revealing than stock. Mids are amazing as always and the upper-mid bump disappears.

The JAR600B slots in below the JAR650B. Very open, excellent imaging, holographic. While I like these quite a bit - my personal favorite of the two JAR600's - they are a little too thin/lean for my tastes. The JAR650B is my sweet spot I believe. Just enough weight for my tastes.

I really believe you need to hear all 6 (stock included) to really find the one that resonates with you. The JAR600's solved my issues with the HD600, but after hearing the JAR650's - I think I know which flavor I'm interested in.

If I could own two JAR's - I'd pick the JAR650B and the JAR600OG. I think that would be an excellent pair of Sennheiser flavors that are just enough different that you can find what works for your specific material.

Cons of all of them - still not going to have the bass of a Utopia/Clear (IMO) - But the JAR's dang they get quite a bit right and not a lot wrong! Awesome work EXT aka Jupiter.

 

@ext1 and any other long term owner's of the JAR HD6xx series OG and/or B version. How does the sound change when the ear pads become noticeably worn, and compressed? It's something that drove me crazy with the HD650 and drove me to the HD600.

 

It's funny, because I know at least two people that prefer worn pads to fresh pads on the B version (specifically black silk 600), and purposely choose to use worn pads on them. FWIW, when I was finishing the work on the loaner unit, I did try new pads but somehow also preferred the worn and squishy ones. With this particular unit, I feel that it's because worn pads get you warmer mids (but a looser sound). But, I felt that the mids were quite special on this and hence my decision.

A few days ago I swapped out semi-worn pads to fresh pads on my 580 stock, and I immediately noticed the sound got more 'space' and more in my head, but had a much more 'thin' and focused sound. So I ended up going back to semi-worn pads.
The same day I also swapped out semi-worn pads to fresh pads on my JAR660S. That was an awesome change- the sound had more space as noted before with the 580 but with no drawbacks at all. The mids were still the same strength even at a larger space.

I feel that it has to do with the 'energy' of the driver. It almost felt as if the 660 benefitted a lot from the pads change because it's so well damped and has enough energy to fill in the extra 'space' resulting from fresh pads, whereas stock 580 could not and so went better with semi-worn pads. Again I might be just probably crazy and probably this isn't the best way to describe things, but...that's how I understand things. There's probably a better technical explanation somewhere/could be done by someone more knowledgeable.

So yeah, as with any headphone, there's no keeping pads in the same condition until eternity, but I guess at least with the stuff I made, it can be a good thing depending on your preferences.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply. I love the HD650 with fresh pads, but as soon as they start to wear I don't like the murk they bring to the table. My head is somewhat wide and round, so the clamp squish the pads down fairly quickly, and I don't want to replace pads a few times a year.

On the other hand a don't really like the HD600 with fresh pads, it's on the cussssssp of annoying, but they soon compressed and settled into something that I can live with for much longer. I still have the stock pads on my 2016 HD600, however I replaced the head band pad a few weeks ago with an Amazon knockoff that works just fine.

 

My god! I'm so glad I wasn't going insane xD I'm happy we noted the same experiences. Yes, it's funny with the 580 it likes semi-worn for sure. Nowadays because of that, I put all the fresh ones that were on my 660 to the 580s (that have become semi-worn), and put new ones on the 660. It's also good to see Senn starting to fix their pad issues, the 6x0 pads have almost been perpetually in stock now and 800 pads are slowly starting to come back now.

This makes sense! I get now your take on the pads and where you're coming from. I too do not prefer the stock 650 on fresh pads for sure. And the stock 600 too, it becomes too bright. My dad had the same experience as you here, when I swapped his JAR600 (OG) I made for him he was like 'wait, what happened, why does it sound different suddenly'. It seems that pads add a touch of warmth as they age for sure.

 

hello,

(tl/dr: i really did not want to lust after, yet, another pair of JAR modified Sennheiser's. i am a foolish old man on a fixed budget. [my sugar momma has final approval.]).

my understanding is, the distinction between stock HD600 and HD650 is that the latter is warmer and more relaxed, and the former is drier and more incisive. albeit, both offer a different flavor of "reference" experience.

well, gee, that carries over to my time with these.

JAR impressions: (all my listening with the 6XX series was with the OG mods, i just love the industrial design and as they sound as good as they do, the B's don't have a chance with me.)

JAR HD600OG: precise, clear, neutral, no genres are unserved.

JAR HD650OG: a little bit more warm and fuzzy than the above, chillax, and let the music flow

JAR HD800S: a pinnacle moment for me, lovely, BIG sound, maybe the best of both (but way out of my league.) and i get really, really, lost in the music. (and tend to neglect my ADL's.)

fantasy acquisition order: JAR HD650OG, JAR HD800S, JAR HD600OG.

@ext1, you, good sir, have done a man's work with these headphones. when i can wheedle the funds, you will be hearing from me.

thank you.

cheers!

(nb: get these off to the Headphone Show to get hyped?)

 

I think the B mod looks even more industrial design-y and steampunk than the OG, but that's just me and I'm biased toward the B for its sound anyway. Erroneous is a fucking legend for putting both these on loaner, I think it's doing a lot to get Juptier's name out there. Sad we didn't at least get some impressions on what you didn't like wrt to the 600B tho, since this thread is more for them than the OG.

And yes! these definitely need to be sent out to big reviewers, maybe Cheap Audio Man, since we sorta have a relationship with him? I know he prefers HFM planars, but I did a 180 back to DD when I heard Erro's pair of 600B.

 

Apologies for the late impressions. Have not felt 100% lately.

Chain:

USB -> Modi Multibit 1 (OPA2156) ->DNA Sonett 2 Hi Z output-> the following headphones


HD600 Black Silk

I tried researching what other people had to say about vintage Sennheisers, and what I learned was that impressions run the gamut, so take this impression with a grain of salt.

When compared to a new production HD600 I believe the vintage model is,
· Just a touch less harsh
· A little bit cleaner. Notes just “click” out of the background.

JAR600B – Black Silk
· A little forward in in its presentation.
· Quiet notes or passages in the music feels lifted up compared to a stock 600. Much more noticeable
· Edges of notes have been deburred and radiused.
· It just hits right with more weight behind everything.
· Sound stage is more spherical. This is an oversimplification, but I’m not sure how to describe it.

JAR600
· Most forward and focused presentation of all the headphones
o Doesn’t have the openness of the B version, but you absolutely feel the music washing over you.
· It really does feel versatile. Both in terms of genre, but also feels like it could handle a setup that emphasizes treble a bit.
· I could relax with this headphone all day.


Offhand thoughts:

I’m curious what these headphones would sound like with ZMF pads.
I wish I could revisit the 650B. For some reason I thought it was thin. I don’t get the feeling from the 600B at all.
I’m still very impressed by the application of these mods.

 

As something of a B aficionado (err, fan girl I mean—I like the JAR600B over the JAR800v2), DO IT. Go vtg, and B mod it, whatever it is, hell—do a 580, would be the first of its kind! I obviously can't read.

 

The ones that don't agree with that statement are a bunch of heathens. HEATHENS I SAY!

On a more serious note have you tried the 650B or are are you waiting to get your own pair?