JAR600V2 impressions thread

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Erroneous, Nov 27, 2022.

  1. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    V2 and VB are used interchangeably here. It's the same thing but in conversation with Jupiter we've both called the mod V2 and VB. On the JAR website it's called VB. It's also the second version he's made but because it's so different from the OG and not necessarily better (just totally different), he calls it VB... most of the time.

    We're currently kicking off a tour of the JAR600VB along with a pair of OG JAR600. This is the impressions thread where loaner participants can say what they think about both headphones. I'll start.

    I've lived with the OG JAR600 (mine is a silver screen HD600 variant) for awhile. I just got my new JAR600VB (black screen HD600 variant) days ago. Since Jupiter is heading back to college soon and his modding output will be reduced (read longer lead times), I wanted to get this tour cracking as soon as possible.

    Much has been said on this site about the OG JAR600, but I'll give a quick rundown:
    I can't listen to a regular HD600. It's way too bright and stabby to my ears. JAR600 takes the heat off the top end and tonally leans it a smidge towards an HD650, while tightening up the bass and also giving it more thump. This is basically exactly what has to happen in order for me to enjoy an HD600, so this mod is perfect for me.

    With the new VB mod, talking to Jupiter he said there was a different goal, and I think he knocked it out of the park. He was trying to let us hear the driver instead of the various other things that get in the way and generally shape the sound of the headphone, while still taming the upper end stabbiness. Listening to the VB, it has increased clarity and detail, a larger headstage, and a much more direct feel. The headphone seems to get out of the way and let more musical information through. It's impressive. To me, that brings it closer to HD800 level in a few ways (I'm a fan of the HD800. If you're not, maybe you prefer OG version.)

    I think if you have a very resolving system you will appreciate what he has done with VB. I will say though that each version plays to different strengths in systems. If you have a bright, lean SS system you may prefer the OG. If you have a tubey, little bit bloomy, little bit laid back system you may prefer the VB. I really enjoy both on my system. I believe my system to be rather balanced, so that makes sense to me.

    We'll see what y'all think.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  2. caute

    caute Friend

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    I'd like to first thank @Erroneous for shipping both his JAR600v1/OG and JAR600B/v2, which I got to try out of my LAuX (definitely not the best pairing) and also from the Nitsch Piety (so good a pairing that it goes toe-to-toe with my LAuX > LCD-X, thank you @Slade01 for the loaner!).

    [​IMG]

    I listened to the JAR600v1 first, so I'd like to start there with some quick impressions and then compare the v2/B with the OG mods. I have nothing in the Sennheiser family to compare either JAR variants to except the HD6XX (stock, had a couple months ago before selling after I got a pair of LCD-X) and the HD800SDR (distant memory by now), so this is why I am doing the baseline v1 vs v2 format (first impressions with the LAUX, Piety impressions down below):

    So—off to it—the JAR600 v1/OG:
    • Neutral tonality and response
    • Excellent blackground
    • Lack of graininess/muddiness at normal volumes, very smooth
    • Very upfront mids, the female vocal range is superbly represented
    • Can crank it up without fatigue, which can’t say about stock HD6XX or stock LCD-X
    • Taut bass, well-articulated, extension feels to fall pretty deep into the mix, not at all boomy/woolly, loose, limp (like the HD6XX), although softer than the lcd-x of course
    • Center image more well-defined than HD6XX, less 3-blob-y, less panned, more out of your head
    • Quicker transient response than HD6XX
    • Great for intimate folk, indie folk and folk rock genres, feels like a warm campfire singalong
    • Listening to podcasts/YouTube videos is way more enjoyable than LCD-X
    • Addictive midrange
    • A bit of treble grain at higher SPLs

    The JAR600B / v2, which I have spent much more time with vs the v1:
    • Way more open
    • Still intimate but entire soundscape is opened up to a large degree
    • Soundstage increase, wider by a considerable margin
    • Treble response lifted
    • Vocal placement changes, more pinpoint, but weirdly to the right (probably just hearing the mix here)
    • Imaging better
    • Heftier, drum kicks sound more real in timbre and bassiness
    • Bass texture is better
    • Actually good for classical music
    • Less dull, muted, veiled, anemic, whatever you want to call it
    • Vocals clearer
    • Better timbre, subjectively
    • Faster than v1
    • Better for a wider variety of genres
    • Some songs just don't jive with the v1, can let Tidal shuffle songs and not change them w the JAR600B
    • Competes with LCD-X in certain areas
    • More air
    • More incisive
    • Can feel snare, drum hits
    • Busier passages of music are rendered more elegantly
    • Bass seems elevated in general
    • Guitars have “bite” and “edge”
    • Can turn up with less treble grain

    Pros for both (aside from the glowing positives above)
    • Don’t hear the infamous 600 “shout” on either
    • Compared to stock HD6XX, which is very in your head and L-R panned—no phantom center image—the JAR600B has a center image and is less inside head/between head

    Cons for both
    • Some grain, amp-dependent (exhibits this trait on my LAuX but not the Piety, somehow it’s smoother on the Piety, trade some grain for a little splash)
    • That's really it. From the Piety, I cannot detect any other glaring/big cons or faults of the JAR600B—it's an incredible headphone, both technically and emotionally

    From the Nitsch x Schiit Magni Piety
    • This headphone entirely transforms via the Piety, from highs to lows and timbre to texture, up and down, all around, this combo is indescribably good. Forgive me for being hyperbolic, but this price : performance ratio is off-the-charts, and new toy syndrome may be hitting, but from the Piety, the JAR600B hits harder
    • Piety + 600B is a fucking powerhouse, it easily rivals, in almost all areas except for slam, resolve and microdetail (this one could easily be subjective) my LAuX + LCD-X combo
    • Only miss bass response, overall resolution & imaging/separation from LCD-X, otherwise the JAR600B has better timbre, non-fatiguing tonality, and midrange for vocals, esp. female vocals
    • The midrange of the JAR600B on the Piety is truly amazing
    • Has an addictive, one-more-song quality, from the easygoing-ness of the tonality but also the JAR600B's decadently rich timbre and texture
    • I haven't reached for my LCD-X since I received the Piety on loan, it's been non-stop JAR600B > Piety, and that says a lot, as I consider myself a planar guy...
    vs LCD-X (un-EQ'ed)
    • LCD-X has a better sense of timing and rhythm, falls into a groove and rides the wave, nimbler
    • JAR600B makes me realize how thick the timbre on lcd-x is, it’s much lighter both JAR600 variants, but I think I might prefer the timbre from the JAR600B overall
    • LCD-X has a blacker background, sounds seem to emanate from nowhere, the space in which individual notes linger is bigger
    • More upfront sounding
    vs LCD-X (EQ’d)
    • You're gonna call me crazy, but I can hear the breath through a singer’s missing tooth, that’s the level of tiny detail we’re talking about here
    vs RD-X

    My audio memory of this hp is rather fuzzy since it’s been around 5 months since I’ve heard it, but from memory:
    • the RD-X outshines the JAR variants on all levels:
    • gone is the treble fuckery of the stock X, its timbral weirdness, and most importantly its need for eq/tone control
    • It literally sounds like someone 650’d an LCD-X, which is to say, in my biased opinion, as close to perfection as $1775 can get you in headphones
    • Yes, the RD-4 is better, I’ve demoed it too, but the RD-X is the value king here, as is the JAR600B when it comes to the JAR600v1 vs v2 debate (and imho, the JAR600B is better regardless of price)

    Conclusion

    I think I am actually going to hunt for a black screen HD600 for Jupiter to mod and try to find a way to get a Piety, this headphone is that good. I don't need a secondary system, but i might downsize to that setup.

    It's easily my 3rd favorite headphone, with the RD-X taking the top spot and the stock LCD-X in second. It's so good that—even though it's not better than the stock LCD-X—from the Piety, I actually do like it better for some tracks after extensively demoing it over 3 days straight (10+ hours per day) .

    To use a rating system from a certain online music publication owned by Condé Nast that tries to be "objective", if the RD-X is an 8.8 (from the LAuX) and the stock LCD-X is a 7.9 (also from the LAuX), the JAR600B is a 7.7 (from the Piety)—they're that close. Feed the JAR600B garbage, in my case, the LAuX then the score drops to a 6.2, synergy is that sensitive with this headphone (as with all headphones, but the Liquid Gold X is particularly not well-suited to high impedance dynamics).

    Knowing the scaling ability of the 6X0 family, I could easily see myself placing an "objective" rating for the JAR600B higher—if heard off an EC or DNA, better Cavalli, or even a better Woo, amp—than the stock LCD-X, perhaps... even higher than the RD-X.

    With the right amp, this is a wholeheartedly recommended headphone for anyone who wants romance but also technicalities, a 6X0 headphone that hits harder, and rich timbre, texture & vocals.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 21, 2022
  3. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    Great Impressions @caute. I'm getting quite a similar set of impressions with my JAR650 V1/V2 loaner right now. Same with your Piety impressions. It's actually a really solid pairing with the 650. Can't wait to hear the 600's.

    There are presentation differences for sure between the two sets. One leans more traditional HD650 with punch and the other leans towards HD800 presentation with amazing imaging and stage size.
     
  4. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Hopefully not derailing or thread crapping, but is there a v1 thread - search yielded nothing.

    If not, would it be fine with @Erroneous and mods to rename this as the JAR600 thread?

    If it exists, I'll request mods delete this post to clean the thread back up.
     
  5. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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  6. JonCharles

    JonCharles Friend

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    I'll give my brief and unprofessional impressions of both the JAR600 OG and VB. Won't go so much into pros and cons, I'll let you read between the lines. Anytime I say 600 or 650, I am referring to the unmodded headphones. My chain is Pi2AES > Gungnir A1 > SW51+ (stock tubes).

    OG (V1)
    • Actually sounds like a high-performance blend of the 600 and 650. Lusher sound like 650, but tonally much more similar to 600 (IMO a good thing).
    • A little more mellow than 600, easy to crank the volume without pain. Great for all day relaxed listening and deep listening.
    • Notes hit with a weight and presence that is not present on 600, music sounds more meaty.
    • A lot more clarity, particularly in the bass which is more filled out. These are more technically proficient than 600 or 650.
    • Super versatile genre-wise. They can really groove as well as capture the air needed for classical music.
    • Imaging is a little more precise than 600, soundstage a little less blobby. Still clearly derived from 600 in this aspect.
    • Still essentially sounds like headphones
    VB (V2)
    • Very unique sound for a dynamic driver. Sounds like it combines planar clarity with dynamic tone and weight.
    • Not mellow, but also not particularly fatiguing (little more than OG, less than 600). I can relax to it, but I find that this really rewards active listening.
    • Notes don't hit as hard as OG, but they feel lithe and athletic. There is a greater clarity in the whole picture than 600 or even OG.
    • The amount of air and space between notes is extremely addicting. Previously claustrophobic tracks can finally breathe. Musical lines never seem to crowd each other.
    • Noticeably less present bass than OG, although still quite clean compared to 600. Performs well in most genres, but might not be the best for bass driven ones. Your chain will likely make a big difference here (Tried Mjolnir 1 which filled out the bass, still preferred spaciousness of SW51+).
    • Insanely good technical ability for the price. Combination of electrostatic like clarity and delineation along with the established resolving and scaling ability of 6xx line.
    • Imaging ability is unbelievably precise (top-tier honestly), much better than 600 and OG. Music sounds like it is from farther back in the seats than 600 or OG.
    • Sometimes can make me forget that I'm listening to headphones
    Edit: SW51+ impressions from low Z output, which I almost always prefer. High Z makes bass more prominent (quite nice with VB) but it becomes more woolly and sound is overall more claustrophobic. Certainly worth trying both outputs if you can.

    Final Thoughts
    I am very grateful to Erroneous for organizing this wonderful loaner and generously lending these headphones. I also have to applaud Jupiter for his success in making such fantastic improvements on this classic. Both of them were wonderful, and it would be difficult for me to pick a favorite. With a gun held to my head, I would probably pick the VB (V2), because I find it to be more unique and special, and it is considerably less expensive and difficult to make (Correction: not easier to make). The OG is the perfect choice for those that essentially want to still have a 600 but better/fixed. I could personally live with either one as my only headphone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2022
  7. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    Thank you for allowing me to participate in this loaner. I apologize for the delayed impressions for the 600's compared to the 650's. Sometimes health hits ya.

    Much of what I said for the JAR650OG and JAR650B translates similarly to the JAR600OG and JAR600B. The OG has a specific goal and the B has a different goal.

    System - Pi2AES -> SFD-1 Mk2 -> Schiit Vali 2+ & Schiit Piety

    Much of what has been said above is VERY true. I can't find anything in the previous reviews that goes against what I've heard.

    The JAR600OG almost fits right in-between the JAR650OG and the JAR650B. The JAR600OG is a "super" HD600, with all the slight niggles smoothed out and bringing you deeper into the music with the improved imaging and clarity. Very even keeled. Grainy in the bass, but still more revealing than stock. Mids are amazing as always and the upper-mid bump disappears.

    The JAR600B slots in below the JAR650B. Very open, excellent imaging, holographic. While I like these quite a bit - my personal favorite of the two JAR600's - they are a little too thin/lean for my tastes. The JAR650B is my sweet spot I believe. Just enough weight for my tastes.

    I really believe you need to hear all 6 (stock included) to really find the one that resonates with you. The JAR600's solved my issues with the HD600, but after hearing the JAR650's - I think I know which flavor I'm interested in.

    If I could own two JAR's - I'd pick the JAR650B and the JAR600OG. I think that would be an excellent pair of Sennheiser flavors that are just enough different that you can find what works for your specific material.

    Cons of all of them - still not going to have the bass of a Utopia/Clear (IMO) - But the JAR's dang they get quite a bit right and not a lot wrong! Awesome work EXT aka Jupiter.

    :punk::bow:
     
  8. JK47

    JK47 Friend

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    @ext1 and any other long term owner's of the JAR HD6xx series OG and/or B version. How does the sound change when the ear pads become noticeably worn, and compressed? It's something that drove me crazy with the HD650 and drove me to the HD600.
     
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  9. ext1

    ext1 MOT: Jupiter Audio Research

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    It's funny, because I know at least two people that prefer worn pads to fresh pads on the B version (specifically black silk 600), and purposely choose to use worn pads on them. FWIW, when I was finishing the work on the loaner unit, I did try new pads but somehow also preferred the worn and squishy ones. With this particular unit, I feel that it's because worn pads get you warmer mids (but a looser sound). But, I felt that the mids were quite special on this and hence my decision.

    A few days ago I swapped out semi-worn pads to fresh pads on my 580 stock, and I immediately noticed the sound got more 'space' and more in my head, but had a much more 'thin' and focused sound. So I ended up going back to semi-worn pads.
    The same day I also swapped out semi-worn pads to fresh pads on my JAR660S. That was an awesome change- the sound had more space as noted before with the 580 but with no drawbacks at all. The mids were still the same strength even at a larger space.

    I feel that it has to do with the 'energy' of the driver. It almost felt as if the 660 benefitted a lot from the pads change because it's so well damped and has enough energy to fill in the extra 'space' resulting from fresh pads, whereas stock 580 could not and so went better with semi-worn pads. Again I might be just probably crazy and probably this isn't the best way to describe things, but...that's how I understand things. There's probably a better technical explanation somewhere/could be done by someone more knowledgeable.

    So yeah, as with any headphone, there's no keeping pads in the same condition until eternity, but I guess at least with the stuff I made, it can be a good thing depending on your preferences.
     
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  10. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    Haha! I can back this up, too. My HD580 Black Paper had fresh new pads, but my HD6xx had worn out pads that are still very comfortable. Earlier this week, I swapped the pads on the headphone because I wanted new pads for my HD6xx. I had the same transformation in sound on my HD580 as you did. I haven't been giving my HD580 much time recently, but with these worn pads, I've been using the HD580 a lot more. I enjoy that it took care of the thinness up top while adding a touch of warm.

    I also have a one-off pair of cloth memory foam Dekoni pads for the HD580 that are super comfy, but make the headphone sound like warm poo.
     
  11. JK47

    JK47 Friend

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    Thanks for the detailed reply. I love the HD650 with fresh pads, but as soon as they start to wear I don't like the murk they bring to the table. My head is somewhat wide and round, so the clamp squish the pads down fairly quickly, and I don't want to replace pads a few times a year.

    On the other hand a don't really like the HD600 with fresh pads, it's on the cussssssp of annoying, but they soon compressed and settled into something that I can live with for much longer. I still have the stock pads on my 2016 HD600, however I replaced the head band pad a few weeks ago with an Amazon knockoff that works just fine.
     
  12. ext1

    ext1 MOT: Jupiter Audio Research

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    My god! I'm so glad I wasn't going insane xD I'm happy we noted the same experiences. Yes, it's funny with the 580 it likes semi-worn for sure. Nowadays because of that, I put all the fresh ones that were on my 660 to the 580s (that have become semi-worn), and put new ones on the 660. It's also good to see Senn starting to fix their pad issues, the 6x0 pads have almost been perpetually in stock now and 800 pads are slowly starting to come back now.

    This makes sense! I get now your take on the pads and where you're coming from. I too do not prefer the stock 650 on fresh pads for sure. And the stock 600 too, it becomes too bright. My dad had the same experience as you here, when I swapped his JAR600 (OG) I made for him he was like 'wait, what happened, why does it sound different suddenly'. It seems that pads add a touch of warmth as they age for sure.
     
  13. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth 2000% biased Planar Hater

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    JAR600 OG and B Impressions

    I've already reviewed the JAR600 OG a long time ago, but it's worth saying saying it again that it's one of my favorite headphones. I consider it to be one of the best headphones around irrespective of price, and it's no secret to anyone who knows me well that I love the darn thing enough to have bought the loaner unit for myself after the original tour was done.

    Now, I'll also say this upfront; the B mod does not change my mind here. For my preferences and use case, I prefer the OG mod. However, the JAR600B does a few things that the OG mod does not quite accomplish, and I think it's worth considering pending both system synergy and personal preferences.

    JAR600 OG Revisited

    The OG mod is nothing new, both in terms of how long Jupiter has done this mod, and in terms of the ideas this mod uses. Modding the HD600/650 has always consisted of a few consistent things; mass-loading the driver and messing around with both the front and rear damping. The JAR600 OG really just takes these ideas and takes them up to an extreme. However, the end result is rather spectacular.

    In my eyes (ears?), it's easier to describe what the shortcomings are for the JAR600 OG than it is to run down the list of everything it does well. There are really only two real "flaws" with the JAR600; the bass still has some of the distortion and indistinctness of the HD600 (really this is a driver issue), and on some amps it still will have a tiny amount of the HD600 veil despite being improved in this area over the stock headphone. Others will also want to include that it still has HD600 grainy timbre from being a dynamic driver. And yeah, that's literally it.

    The beauty of the JAR600 OG is that they simply just don't do anything wrong. I use the JAR600 OG as a reference point for neutrality for headphones because the frequency response is that bang on. The mids-to-treble transition is better than any other headphone I've heard. The transients are lively and quick, but don't have any real overshoot like the Focal Utopia. And of course, it retains the HD600's calling card of being very resolving; these scale up to the real big boy amps. The infamous Sennheiser veil, while not gone, is somewhat reduced. All of this adds up to a headphone that commits incredibly few sins, whether they be of commission or of omission.

    I won't give amp recommendations for the JAR600 OG since I use these as a reference for so many things, but I will say that it's harder to find amps that sound bad when used with the JAR600 OG. If anything, the JAR600 OG will tell you what your amp sounds like. I've enjoyed these out of Magni Piety up to big DNA and Eddie Current tube amps, with a bunch of things in between like Asgard 3, the OG Lyr 3, Woo WA6SE, DSHA-3F, etc (you get the point).

    I do want to point out one amp pairing and flex: the EC Ultralinear is the best amp for the JAR600 OG and I simply do not care what others have to say. The EC Ultralinear somehow cuts the veil out of the JAR600 OG and grips the driver by the balls; it makes it slam and drives them with unrelenting authority with strong attacks, and despite this is still shockingly well-behaved in the highs. I'm not going to lie, when we had the Rockna Wavelight as a loaner here on SBAF, I seriously, SERIOUSLY considered buying the Wavelight simply because the combination of Wavelight, EC Ultralinear, and JAR600 OG was that good as a system and selling everything else. If it isn't obvious, this means I would have chosen the JAR600 OG over my ZMFs and Focal Utopia.

    I give the JAR600 OG my full endorsement and recommendation. I don't endorse blind recommendations of headphones, but if you pointed a gun at my head and forced me to blind recommend one headphone to the public, this one would be it.

    JAR600B Impressions

    So the B mod is probably the more interesting of the two for people who have been around the hobby for a while. @ext1 wanted to try something new and went in another direction versus the original mod to the point where the two aren't really related. For one, it's much more open; almost like the open baffle Focals. It's got some other differences that I can't remember off the top of my head, but basically @ext1 went the whole 9 yards and essentially designed a new housing that just happens to fit into the HD600 cup frames.

    Compared to the OG mod, the B sounds a bit brighter. It isn't like the stock HD600 where it sounds like it has heat in the upper mids; think of how I said the OG mod is bang on neutral and the B would just be tilted bright. For me, this means the B requires some careful component matching; I really liked the B out of Feliks Euforia and the high Z output of DNA Starlett.

    However, despite that, the B mod brings a couple big advantages over the OG mod. It sounds much more open than any other HD600 and does away with the veil entirely. It also stages differently; it feels like the stage is pushed further back (hard to say if it's bigger or not since it does feel more open). On top of that, the transients are noticeably a bit quicker and it slams just a bit harder. I'd need to see distortion measurements, but it does sound just a bit cleaner in the bass (maybe a combination of being more open and more defined transients; I'm betting the latter similar to the SR1a). I can definitely see this being someone's preference

    In terms of amps, I mentioned Feliks Euforia and DNA Starlett with IEC high Z output. Basically, I'd recommend something with tubes and maybe even something OTL. The B mod really does shine with the higher output Z; I'd be very curious to see if Folkvangr is a good pairing.

    Thus, it's a bit harder for me to unequivocally recommend the B mod. It requires a bit more consideration in system synergy than the OG mod. That being said, this hobby is a game of preferences and synergy, and the B mod absolutely can work very well.

    Conclusion

    For anyone who for some reason didn't read the beginning of the post (where I always post my conclusions early because I don't believe in wasting people's time), I fucking love the OG mod and can situationally recommend the B mod. Both are very well done and I give @ext1 the highest praise for his work.
     
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