Jude E-peens Tyll and Gaslights Us with Alternative Facts

That is not a Faraday cage. It's an enclosure for the dummy to provide a controlled enviorement. This box is highly isolating towards outside noise, which allows Jude to produce distortion measurements that are actually accurate.
You don't need absorption below 1kHz inside the box as that is unnecessary when measuring headphones. Your requirements are for loudspeakers.
Jude measures in multiple positions. Day ago he also shared raw, uncompensated data.

Look, I know it's funny to call Jude names and deem him as a destructive force for the hobby but what's happening in this thread is classic SBAF elitism which I generally have no issue with since it gives for some nice keks but it's getting kinda stale and aggressive.

There is no denying that Jude's sponsored overkill setup is state of the art. Comparatively Tyll's rig can't compete. Jude made a good point that the more human like ear geometry of his dummy head contributes to more accurate measurements at high frequencies. Thus, I agree on Jude's statement that his measurement may indeed be more "representable".

But Jude doesn't need to be defended. He just uses his data as another marketing tool when it's convenient which to my mind discredits him as a source for actual information. Also he should seriously stop letting his graphs go down to 0,000000000000000000000000000001% so he can fit the sponsor markings on there. That's plain stupid and makes him appear even more dilettante.

 

Anything metallic enclosing something else is by definition a Faraday cage:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

Maybe the terminology used in this case may be inappropriate but the idea that the box is an isolating chamber still stands. But that aside...

1. The box is highly isolating towards outside noise: I disagree. Depending on the material and overall weight distribution of the enclosure, someone walking or stepping right outside of the box (read: within 50 ft distance) may have an effect on low frequency measurement, or at least on low frequency distortion measurement.

2. Yes, the above applies even to headphones. Those of us who have measured for a while know this. This is why some of us choose to measure only at 12AM midnight when we are sure nobody is walking around or no car is running outside. Hell, I used to hold my breath sometimes. And yes, that made a difference. Then there are those of us (like me) who just completely disregard distortion measurements due to us understanding that issue.

3. And by the above, that means his requirements are valid even for headphones. In fact, headphones are far more susceptible to response change by this because they are lighter than speakers and small vibrations affect them more. Try to measure IEMs and it's even worse.

4. The dummy head simply cannot be more accurate. For instance, I would bet you $1,000,000,000 that when you put an in-ear mic into my ears and measure the exact same headphone 100 times in different positions, you'll NEVER get the same response, ever. And I'm a real human being, so that must mean the dummy head is inaccurate. Again, as has been said, more expensive equipment does not mean more accurate in this case. More state of the art is meaningless when a simple experiment can be conducted to point out how inaccurate it is.

5. By #4, Jude's rig is NOT more accurate than Tyll's. Nor is Tyll's more accurate than Jude. But here's a fact: Tyll is a far more experienced technician than Jude at measuring things. I state this as one of those who have had the pleasure of discussing measurements with Jude, and if you'd noticed, I have avoided name-calling or saying bad things about him because I simply hold no ill will toward Jude. Jude knows this, too. BUT... Tyll has simply done this far longer than any of us here. At this point, most of us here are barely level 30-50 and he's already at level 100 or even above. You can just take a gander at the list of headphones he has measured and tell how many times more experience at this stuff he has over us. And seriously, sure you can criticize Tyll's listening impressions, but I think most folks here know better than to claim they are better at measuring things than him.

6. I'm not one to call Jude names because again, I don't hold any ill will toward him. But... I would say this much, and assuming he's even reading this (I hope he is) that I think calling Tyll out on this is the wrong move, and it serves nothing other than to set a precedence. Think about it. Aside from pissing Tyll off (and indirectly, his bosses), Jude is making it clear he is not above undermining other reviewers in order to protect certain products. And that has dangerous implications. Disregarding the intentions or end-goal, waging war has never been a good idea at any point in human history.

 

As a hardcore binaural geek, I can tell you that this statement is completely wrong. Jude is assuming that Tyll is using the wedged ears and not the human molded ears which the Aachen can use. Regardless, the wedged ears are supposed to provide an averaged result since human ears can vary so much. Jude is also completely disregarding the vast amount of experience Tyll has, something which Jude will NEVER have.

On a purely subjective level, I have heard many recordings using both HATS and Aachen Head as well as others. The Aachen Head recordings are always more accurate, and much better at reproducing spacial cues than HATS. Even the Neumann KU100 produces better recordings than HATS. KEMAR is better than HATS. I think the only one which is worse than HATS is Cortex and AKG's Harry. Hell, the $500 3DIO is better than HATS. Like I said, this is purely subjective, but IMHO, if I could have my pick for which to use, I'd pick the Aachen Head without reservation every single time.

 

Now Stereophile writers are getting involved:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/t...e-from-ifa-2016.818846/page-709#post-13552426

 

You could....but I also have my DIY one based on the Aachen Head if you ever need to use it.

 

Crazy...isn't listening always subjective?!

We all know how great Steve Guttenberg is....

 

Don't forget to make sure the schlong is anthropormorphic and uses the appropriate faraday cage....

 

Coming from Herb I LOOOVE EVERYTHING Reichert?

In my experience, once a 'money person' sees the money he or she will never again be able to listen to the measured object objectively. They will hear what they think the money say they should hear.

While one might argue that Stereophile selectively publishes only positive reviews, you'd have to admit that's still rich coming from Herb.

 

Hm.
By "absorption inside the box" I was refering to the foam placed inside the box, not the box not having to be able to isolate from outside noise below 1kHz.
Even a fully open headphone doesn't "leak" alot of sound below 1kHz which makes absorption below 1kHz not needed in order to provide anechoic chracteristics suited for measuring. With loudspeakers that's a different story.

I did not know that since I have no idea what I'm talking about. I thought that atomicbob suggested that the sole purpose of the box is to provide shielding against electromagnetic fields which is not the case.

The Herzan box that Jude uses does provide isolation at low frequencies due to being high on mass.
To parrot the manufacturers website: "Adding mass is another great way to isolate an instrument from noise. Adding mass increases the impedance of a system, so it will require more energy to excite the system. This makes adding mass to an object an effective means of eliminating low frequency noise, which tends to be lower energy."
The thing is massive. No way you can get it to transmit vibrations by breathing or even walking.
I concur that 100% isolation against such vibration can not be achieved but considering that the dummy inside the box is additionally decoupled from the enclosure, the effect of walking next to it should be neglegable.

True. It won't be more accurate towards positional changes of the headphone, however it does provide results closer to those created with an in ear microphone. The point here is that older dummy heads tend to be less accurate at high frequencies as they don't take the ear canal fully into consideration. Read Judes manipulation-piece here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/t...one-thread-live-from-ifa-2016.818846/page-706
This of course raises the question if "accuracy" is actually needed in this case. I always felt that headphone measurements are most meaningfull when used as a comparative tool, in other words comparing the FR of two headphones instead of looking if there is a flat line.

I agree with point 5. Jude lacks experience especially compared to Tyll. But do you know who has been doing this longer than Tyll? The people who actually make the headphones and the measuring equipment. And Jude seems to be heavily mentored by those people because there is no way he figured this out on his own.
Sadly this just makes him a parrot. Like me, which is probably why I find him so likeable.

Indeed, that suprised me quite a bit. Makes me want to build a cunt even more.

I wonder wether you are paranoid or I'm simply naive. Jude's graphs don't show significant 10k peaks at any position measured. The Z1R doesn't have that much room for the ears and the dummy's pinna allows for less dramatic positional changes. There was this comment on IF that Jude's rig seems to be lower in amplitude around 10kHz on all the headphones measured by the KEMAR compared to Tyll's dummy head.
It trails back to the "don't compare graphs from different setups".

Tyll measures his headphone and then Jude will shut up for the next eternity. No need to make a big fuss about it. This is exactly like that Audeze incident. Your measurement is bad? Gear/sample must be defective.

Also, I did not mean to convey that Tyll's data is "worse". Infact it's better because he has more of it. The added consistency is what makes his library so appealing. I wonder if Jude will release all of those measurements he has done in these "2 years" at some point in time.

 

It would be fun to send Jude a handful of previously measured Z1Rs including the one Tyll measured. I bet he couldn't pick the 'outlier' unit out of a group using his fancy measurement rig.

 

Far out, I'm operating on a severe lack of caffeine and almost clicked on this at work. Would have been fun to have to explain to the IT department that I was just interested in that site for "measurement purposes"...