Magni 3+ and Magni 3 Heresy released

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by redrich2000, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. scblock

    scblock Friend

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    For the most part you can’t fix stupid, and I would recommend not arguing with it either. They are not the same circuit though. Jason has stated in the past that the Magni 3+ is very similar to Vidar in topology. Asgard 3 runs with Continuity, which has much more Class A bias and also avoids tranconductance droop (slightly overcompensated for if I remember right). It runs a lot hotter, and feedback from others is it has a distinctly different sound.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    They be different, quite different.

    Like what ^ said: you can't argue with religious extremists under the guise of the one-truth. They'd rather virtually suicide-bomb you. They ask you to run level-matched blind tests, but at the same time they refuse to do so themselves, and even if they did, their confirmation bias would never allow them to admit it sounded different. This hypocrisy is not any different from the mullahs in Iran today.

    P.S. And yes, I've level matched and double blind-tested these two amps. (I got in an Asgard 3 around the time of Magni 3 Heresy and Magni 3+ when I was more intensively blind testing stuff). Asgard 3 is warmer. But really, the difference isn't small subjectively.

    P.S.

    Although, something I've observed when blind testing, big differences experience from sighted tests tend to be much smaller when done blind. For example, when blind testing Heresy and Magni 3+, tonal differences did not seem huge. They seem a lot bigger now as I switch between them with sighted tests. Thus the explaining some of the audible differences I had with @Hands. Sighted tests I concur with @Hands regarding the Heresy as warmer and 3+ as edgier. Blind tests less so.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    No doubt, blind testing makes things much harder. Usually, delta gaps shrink, but not always.

    I would liked to have blind tested the amps. In sighted comparisons, it felt like "easy mode" telling those two apart, but who knows what would have happened in a blind test for me.
     
  4. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

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    I think the Magni 3+ and Asgard 3s gain stages are very similar, at least from eye balling them on the website. They look to have much in common, however the Asgard has the continuity output stage (its that big old thing in the middle of the Asgard 3 you can see in the pictures I believe) which the Magni doesnt have. This resolves the issue of transconductance droop which is probablly not a issue many of them were aware of. After hearing what the issue was I personally think I did encounter that with many class AB amps including the Magnis.

    The Asgard also has a much much better power supply. So even if the gain stages were identical (and I dont know that they are) the Asgard has a lot going on the Magni doesnt. I doubt you are going to be able to convince anyone there though as they will just think the numbers are all that matter.

    If nothing else you can point out that the Asgards volume pot is at least 70000.999978765% better than the ones found in the Magnis or other cheap ass amps.
     
  5. Denis Binder

    Denis Binder New

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  6. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    The difference between an Asgard and a Magni is night and day on a lot of tracks. I can pick something that would make it so. These guys are jsut deaf and rig the blind abx testing like Ethan Whiner. They don’t even hire strippers.
     
  7. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Although I like this amp quite a lot, I realized I haven't posted anything to this thread yet. With my newly activated grado love, indeed magni 3+ addressed a large portion of my head time during the past week.

    My general loves aside, there are some interesting points worth reporting.
    • I generally prefer to hear anything with Schiit amps on high gains. Jotunheim or Asgard 3 was no exception. But I found that was slightly not the case for magni 3+. Things sound overly edged on highs and timbre a little off. Occasionally distracting, too. Not a critical deal breaker for $99 amp, but low gain didn't present such issues.
    • Also reversely, M3+'s low gain didn't present lacking engagement factor I'm typically annoyed with other Schiit amps' low gain. In fact it sounds very balanced in general, let alone its inherent juicelessness for moderate to low efficient headphones.
    • Compared to the other amp I'm owning now (note: twice more expensive), M3+ can't provide hd650 and Verite with enough control and dynamics (both micro and macro). See this post for more detailed comparisons: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...views-and-impressions.9627/page-2#post-310660
    • The most synergistic pairing headphones I found so far are Grado Hemp (probably applicable to any concurrent Grados in general). Their super high sensitivity and driving easiness generate a great harmony with M3+. It was convincing enough to sedate my upgrading nervosa. Still plan to try out higher amps with these capable transducers in the long run though (yup, it's an incurable disorder!).
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  8. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    I picked up a Magni 3+ for my secondary rig. I've only listened to it for a couple hours (Rega RP1|Mani|Magni 3+|Aeolus), but so far so good. Much better than the Modi 2 Uber, which had some treble zinginess that I found fatiguing. I guess my main thought so far is that it doesn't really call attention to itself, which is a good thing. I thought the Asgard 3 on the same setup did a better job of pulling me in to the music, but at $99 and for my second rig this will do the job.
     
  9. Zampotech

    Zampotech Friend

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    Is this condition of the game still relevant?
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    yes
     
  11. Zampotech

    Zampotech Friend

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    Thanks. Perhaps I will participate in a competition with my friends.

    Thanks to the efforts of a small team an amplifier with the following characteristics THD was born

    [​IMG]

    The measurements were not made on my equipment.
    Between the generator and the amplifier, second-and third-harmonic cut-off filters were included.
    Of course, the result is obscenely good and therefore requires careful re-checking.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Note for apples to apples with Magni 3+, we are talking about a much smaller signal level. 550mVrms or -3dBu.
     
  13. Zampotech

    Zampotech Friend

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    Yes, we will make the levels uniform.
     
  14. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Is this ViktKors's work?
     
  15. Zampotech

    Zampotech Friend

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    Yes, that's his job. He called the amplifier " senseless and merciless"
     
  16. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    @Zampotech Wondering how you and your pal(s) subjectively describe the sound of "S&M". Assume that sounds convincingly good to you though.

    And for the market niche in 2020, I want you and your team to expand SE to bal outs. I am seeing a huge market need for discrete bal out solid amps that measure great but doesn't necessarily sound bad...

    Also if you want to AB the SnM amp with Magni 3+ side by side, please pm me. I have a magni 3+ no longer used and don't mind offering a semi? long loan to your team for the product voicing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
  17. Zampotech

    Zampotech Friend

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    I completely agree with you. First of all, I want to make sure that this amplifier will have the same characteristics of different examples during production. After that, I will have to ask the permission of the authors of this amplifier for production.
     
  18. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Only a couple weeks left... has anyone taken a shot at this?
     
  19. Grattle

    Grattle Friend

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    I owned the Magni Heresy, and the Magni 3+ at the same time. I kept the Magni 3+. I felt like it was a little more engaging. If you look at it over time, which one do you find yourself plugging into? I think it takes time, and your sub-conscious mind will help guide you. Part of me wonders what the Magni line would sound like with a full size pot instead of those dinky RK09s.

    That said, I feel like the Magni 3+ is rolled up top. The musical image sounds slightly blurry. I'd give the Magni 3+ a B+, and the Heresy a B. Before I got my Pi streamer and started using spdif, I didn't hear any difference really. Source really does make a difference.

    I've never had the chance to hear a real big boy amplifier. Schiit-wise, at what point do you folks feel you leave the minor leagues, and get into the majors? Is the Asgard more than just a Magni 3+ with a better pot and power supply?
     
  20. DiligentInventor

    DiligentInventor New

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    I found out about this thread right before the contest was over. The conditions seemed very interesting and a bit challenging to me. I immediately registered on the forum but decided not to give opinions until my device is more or less finished.

    Of course, the time is over now and I don't expect any more participation. However, without this thread, the device would not have been created. So I feel it is the right place to announce the "GrandPa" - a headphone amplifier made in a very traditional circuit design with discrete components. In fact, his heart is a headphone amplifier that my grandfather could build in 1968.
    However, it also claims to be a modern amplifier. I've used SMD components, 4-layer PCBs, microcontrollers, and protection circuits.

    Of course, if the amp would be ready to go to customers it would have its own thread. And now I just want to show you some pictures to discuss what a discrete headphone amplifier might look like now or many years ago.

    So there is the board:
    [​IMG]

    Brief introduction (the technical data can be found there)
    click

    And some THD:
    At ca. 2 Vrms (typical for sensitive headphones)
    [​IMG]

    If 32 Ohm Load is driven by destroying 1.8 Watt
    [​IMG]

    and CCIF spectrum [​IMG]

    Note: The noise (within a few microvolts) must be taken into account in order to estimate frequently discussed THD+N.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021

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