Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by redrich2000, Nov 29, 2019.
New Magni 3+ and Magni Heresy released
Oh Schiit! An opamp Magni?
The fact that it's priced the same shows that discrete designs can be cheap.
I'm liking the new casework Schiit has been doing lately. It'd be cool to see that on some older products as well. @zerodeefex, any impressions on how the two compare?
And the regular Mangi 3 is on last call for $59. Can't get better than that, unless you have to hate Schiit if it makes your ego feels good. I mean, it's only $59.
Sorry for second post, but now I'm thinking about it: How good is the Heresy with IEMs like the Andros/Solaris ? When I had the Mangi 3 there was not enough wiggle room in the vol pot for sensitive IEMs. So on my Solaris it gets loud fast with channel imbalance. THX AAA wins with IEMs in Gain I. If the Heresy can even pull off IEMs with a vol adjustment, it would be great for IEMs for the price.
Legitimately curious if Heresy version is a troll product that Schiit deliberately made sound bad but measure well for the likes of ASR or similar "Measurements are so easy and you only need 3/a few graphs to completely define gear" crowd.
My strong suspicion is that Jason takes enough pride in his work that he wouldn't be able to release something that he thought was actively bad, and that the Heresy represents what he believes is the best he can do with an op-amp, measurements-first design in that budget.
I wouldn't release anything that I didn't think sounded good. The chapter covers this (downloadable on the product page.)
That said, I'm going out of my way not to tell people how I think each amp sounds. We'll definitely be doing a blind listening test over at the Schiitr in December!
I don't think it a troll by any means.
For every non-shit product, human being has a large variance of preference/taste. Nothing wrong.
Actually, a lot of sbaf people like Drop THX over similarly-priced others. Very understandable. That's just the last product I would like to use for myself as it doesn't sound good enough to me (in the way I prefer). Nothing wrong, again.
It seems that Magni heresy philosophy-wise resembles thx789. Target customer clusters would be largely very similar. It's good to see Schiit reaches out to more diverse customers, although heresy doesn't seem to please me.
Magni 3+ measurements:
Will reiterate what I said in another thread. The design using discrete parts has less rejection of the AC mains noise compared to the chips in the Heresy. Note that the level here are a bit lower than those on Schiit's site. 0.55Vrms ino 300-ohms is very very loud in an HD650. I wanted to use a level slightly past the upper end of peaks for normal listening. Gain at output is -1.23db, a little bit less than unity on the 1X gain setting.
D2 and D3 into 300-ohms are impressively low and actually comparable to the Heresy version, which is amazing because this is a discrete design. There is more D4 compared to Heresy. Distortion into 32-ohms is a bit higher.
-3dbU (or 0.55Vrms) at output into 300-ohms.
-3dbU into 30-ohms
THDN vs dbU (input)
To arrive at output dbU, subtract -1.23db.
GREEN is 32-ohm load; RED is 300-ohm load.
High-gain is +14.78 or 5.5X
5.5X gain, -3dbU or 0.55Vrms at output into 300-ohms
5.5X gain, -3dbU or 0.55Vrms at output into 32-ohms
THDN vs dbU (input)
To arrive at output dbU, add 14.78db
GREEN is 32-ohm load; RED is 300-ohm load.
$1000 Discrete Design Challenge - Beat Magni 3+
Going to put this out there. The reason goes to this: I am sick and tired of Amir passing judgement on shit that he has no fricking idea on. He thinks mad amplifier engineering skills means putting lego blocks of opamps and other monolithic pieces together and has zero idea on how much more difficult it is to implement well measuring and good sounding discrete designs together. Refer here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...schiit-magni-3-heresy.8576/page-7#post-280339
Because of this, I will personally issue a challenge and gift $1000 the first person (or company) who within the next 12 months (I may extend this) can put together a "new" amp design with the following requirements:
Beat the the Magni 3+ measurements by at least 1db (1kHz into 32-ohm and 300-ohm loads) using a discrete design across the ranges in the above measurements. Opamps will be allowed for DC servos, control logic. Discrete parts must be required everything else in the "signal chain". Regulator chips will be permissible.
Sound better or equivalent (different but not necessarily better) than Magni 3+ in a level-blind matched test to select SBAF'ers. I am thinking folks like @CEE TEE, @Bill-P, @ChaChaRealSmooth who don't have anything to gain, are more free from bias, and less apt to post photos of poop to describe gear. Two of three persons will be sufficient to pass "better or equivalent".
Bill of materials below $450 for individuals, $150 for companies. BoM must be provided. Companies will be allowed to cite volume pricing for parts.
Intent or participation must be signaled here.
Let's see if Topping, JDS, Monolith, SMSL, etc. even try.
What’s a thousand bucks to those companies though? We should be offering them an honorary Golden Schlong if they make a submission. Call it the Big Swinging Golden Schlong for having the chutzpah.
Yes - they get a Golden Schlong and even more exposure (outside of just ASR). You want to know why? They can't. I don't think we've seen a single discrete design every come from these companies. Discrete design is harder.
Benchmark can do it, but not at the BoM constraints.
Given the choice of Magni 3 for $39 or Magni 3+ for $99, I'd opt for the latter. It's like what @zerodeefex said, the 3+ craps all over the 3. While I do not feel the 3+ is a giant killer, it is the first cheap amp that I feel can give me a good feel for how well a headphone can scale. For example, the Fulla 2, which I used for travel, is OK for headphones like the ZMF Verite (despite tonal balance that may not please everyone, I think most people will agree that they scale like mad to $7+ amps), but I'm always finding something a little bit missing. The Magni 3+ tilts that feeling of "missing something" over to the point where I'm getting a connection, the emotional involvement, to the music. Does this compete in terms of resolution, heft, or staging of the BW, ECP 3F, Donald's new amp? Certainly not. But I don't feel like I'm compromising like with Fulla or Hel. I'm thinking a blind test against the likes of the V281 or Phonitor might be warranted. Heck, at the risk of cannibalizing Schiit sales, I might prefer the 3+ to the Jotunheim, especially in regards to the emotional involvement aspect.
I think the tbf on this is that, given what he thinks about audio in general, he thinks that the difficulty is proof that you shouldn't do it. If it's easy to put together great-measuring amps with op-amps, and measurements are the only thing that matter, then the only reason to do anything else is for marketing at the rubes or the designer's own vanity.
If you accept his premises -- which obviously almost nobody here does -- then trying to do a discrete design is like trying to write a novel without using the letter E.
Are you talking here about the old-model also-discrete Magni 3 here, or the Magni 3 Heresy (which I think is the one @zerodeefex was comparing to)?
Magni 3 = OG Magni 3
Magni 3+ Magni 3+
Magni 3 Heresy = Magni 3 Heresy
From a subjective point of view, Heresy sucks balls compared to the others. Heck, it's even worse than the Magni 2U.
I've never seen Benchmark was *generally* successful in #2 except for a few inherently in favor of the house sound -- no matter how much the products cost. Their $$$ ones (AHB2 HPA4 etc etc) can do #1 though.
LOL Jason described the Magni 3+ as a mini-Vidar. That definitely has my attention.
The thing that bugged me about the Magni 3 with the HD650 is the closed-in stage. I know the HD650 headstage width ain't nothing to write home about but the staging takes a big leap up when I moved over to the Valhalla 2. Actually I find the Valhalla 2 smashes the Magni 3 in every area with respect to the HD650, but it costs an additional $249 (but worth it if your only headphone is the HD650). I can't speak to other headphones with the Magni 3. I get far more enjoyment out of the HD650 with Valhalla 2 than I ever did with the Magni 3.
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