Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by bimmer100, Jun 5, 2018.
It's a lot more frequent then you would think
LOL! We are so bad sometimes.
Didn't Tse say in an earlier post that this was the first time he ever heard of Sosolar, and by extension the Hibiki board?
And now he's saying the Hibiki board was one that his consultant evaluated?
He's now trying to mitigate risk, probably didn't take time to evaluate his earlier statements.
Is it possible he freaked out and contacted the engineer just in the last day or two when all this came up? Yes, but he still handled it like an idiot.
I absolutely love that this thread has brought out all the amateur lawyers; very entertaining. That said, a few comments:
If massdrop has competent counsel, which I have to believe they do, their agreement w/ Airist/Tse will include an indemnification agreement running to MD from Airist/Tse to MD for just this type of thing, along with a representation by Airist/Tse that it/he has the legal right to market the pertinent tech . This does not make the decision of whether to go ahead and market this product a decision without peril as 1) an agreement to indemnify from a party with no assets is worth just what you might think and; 2) given that the current practice of most Plaintiff's counsel in a litigation context is to sue all even arguably liable parties and let the courts sort it out, sometimes hoping for a settlement from one or all Defendants
even if only to avoid the significant and for a small company, often crippling, expenses of litigation. To me it appears that MD may also be in the unenviable position of being the deep pocket in this situation.
I agree with the above comments re the potential patentability of this tech. It's certainly not new art. That would also cut in favor of a defendant in any non-patent litigation over the "theft" of this tech.
If MD decides to go ahead and release the thing, there would be no reason not to buy it from a legal perspective. Moral reasons? Wtf knows.
In the Massdrop thread someone referred to Mackie vs. Behringer as a legal precedent for all of this being legally fine.
Transparency and admitting mistakes or oversights is such an appealing and easy way to not make people dislike you, especially once they start to dislike you. I recommend it.
LOL, I own Behringer gear still and bought some just a few years after that lawsuit because Behringer was cheap! The word was that Behringer settled - pay less now instead of a chance of pay much more later.
Yup. It's a matter of reputation now. Bah, people forget after 18 months anyway.
Nobody will give a shit in three months. About Airist anyway.
I actually have zero problems buying this. It's a sort of wild west out there in terms of IP and who knows who is getting what from where. While Airist seems a bit buffonish, they still need to manufacture the thing.
Plus at $350 for a discrete DAC, their margin can't be that high. Just look at the price of a Soekris module and add a case + power supply. Not too hard to get near $300.
Well, in this one very specific case, that question has been thoroughly answered.
I suspect the drop will do well regardless.
I have a great idea for Massdrop. Go with Airist for this run. For future runs, cut out Airist and work with Sosolar. Redesign parts Airist was responsible for, which probably wasn't much, and we already know Sosolar has already done an entire DAC (without chassis). Can probably be had for cheaper or at same price with improvements without the middleman in between.
This appears to be a Massdrop manufactured item. Hence only minor redesigns working with Sosolar would be necessary in time for the second run.
No one is refusing to buy Samsung or Apple phones despite there being one of the biggest IP battles in the last two decades raging in the courts right now.
If it sounds great, you want it, and you can afford it, just buy it. (Or don't, based on some moral premise; either way I don't care.) Understand that if it does get ugly legally, then your December delivery date might not happen or be pushed back. The product might even be cancelled after the first run. Know the risks. And these risks apply to almost all early adopter MD products anyway, so...
Also, if you are comfortable with having your $$$ sit in limbo for 8+ months, have fun. (I'll just buy a pre-owned one a few weeks after they ship.)
We should set up a page for Sosolar which tells the story. Anyone who buys an RDAC can voluntarily send him a small contribution, just to help make things right.
If the question, when you "talk to your design team," is, "Guys, did you really design this yourselves," it sounds like he never actually even met them before
I am failing to see what this post has to do with the one quoted. Just sayin'.
I don’t think SBAF should be used as a platform to attempt to destroy a manufacturer. And even if the sosolar DAC sounds as good or better than the Airist, it’s just the board, right? Plenty of audiophiles don’t want or have the time/energy to go the DIY route. A nicely packaged, plug and play option is still viable.
I think it’s great that members of the community are holding manufacturers accountable, but to jump from that to “let’s destroy them” is a bridge too far.
For me, the far bigger issue with ordering one of these now is the December(!) ship date. Given that some people wanted to sell their order of the ZDT Jr. before it even shipped, why would anyone buy a DAC six months out when who knows what could happen in that space in that time?
I agree with Merrick. Might be slightly upset or bugged with Tse's attitudes. Deleted inappropriately expressed two posts.
However I will just pay to who I can respect (so, this makes me a Schiit shill...).
The post I quoted and was replying to has vanished and this post is now therefor devoid of context.
Another vanishing post? Wtf?
I don't think it's possible for us to destroy them. Airist is already doing it to themselves.
I do like @Vtory's suggestion that we contact Sosolar or perhaps buy one of the Hibiki DACs from Taobao to hear it for ourselves. I think we can even give someone willing, like @Cspirou, a few bucks to come up with a PS and chassis. My only concern is lack of documentation. All this out of curiosity.
Separate names with a comma.