Merv's Politically Incorrect Audio Blog

Discussion in 'SBAF Blogs' started by purr1n, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Where the planar subwoofers at?
     
  2. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    Fine. I'll bite one more time. In Post #83 you are asking me to say whether my box or another box will sound better or whether they will sound similar based on a single measurement of THD. I have stated repeatedly that I use multiple measurements to make such a determination and that a single measurement does not yield enough information to make such a determination.

    Tom
     
  3. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    @tomchr I think what he wants to know is the answer to this:

    I'm curious also.
     
  4. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    I offer designs and products that measure well across a wide range of parameters. I do so, because equipment that measures well across a wide range of parameters has been shown in scientifically valid tests to sound good. By buying my products, you get products that are well engineered, well supported, thoroughly tested, and backed up by a suite of measurements. All my retail products are manufactured in Canada at western wages and quality and environmental standards.

    Tom
     
  5. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    Right that is all understood but it doesn't answer the question of what your products do to sound better if the measurements, while better than cheaper products, are by your own admission inaudible for both your products and cheaper alternatives.

    I realize I sound confrontational but I'm not trying to be, I'm legitimately interested and taking advantage of being able to ask these questions directly. You seem to be contradicting yourself though when saying your products sound better than cheaper ones because they measure better, yet said cheaper products' worse measurements are inaudible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  6. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    @tomchr What do you think of Thomas Kuhn?
     
  7. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    If two products both measure well across a range of parameters, science indicates that both would be rated as sounding good. Whether you then prefer to buy Product A or Product B would then depend on all the factors that are not related to sound quality, but are related to the overall quality of the product. This would include user experience, quality of design, quality of manufacturing, colour, chassis material, overall feel, warranty terms, level of customer service, country of manufacture, ..... and, yes, the opinions of "trusted ears".

    @Psalmanazar As for Kuhn's notion of the inclusion of the subjective 'feel' into the scientific understanding of a topic, I think you need to be careful. I.e. I think you need to apply the scientific process to the characterization of the subjective 'feel' and ensure that your "measurements" of this 'feel' are valid. You can find several examples in psychology of scientifically valid measurements of touchy-feely parameters. I'm encouraging those who wish to include subjective measures in the characterization of an audio product to apply similar scientific methods. That's why I'm encouraging folks to perform double-blind ABX testing and analyze their results using statistical methods.

    Tom
     
  8. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
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    Let's not forget that @tomchr had a tube amp kit available for a long while.

    I mean, maybe that it is no longer available means he’s gone full dark side, but there may be good in him still.
     
  9. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Sad to say some people still believe humans can’t actually perceive anything greater than 60hz.
     
  10. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Thank you for translating from my Klingon.

    I suppose that's the best answer we're going to get today. That's fine, the thread has been sufficiently derailed. Might want to split this discussion.
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    How do you explain how your Damn Good 300B amp which measures Damn Shitty, is thought of as sounding Damn Good by many senior members here including at least two or three dedicated DIYers?

    I bet if you used science, at least 87 out of 100 SBAF members will find the DG300 a subjectively better sounding amp than say the THX789 or Jotunheim, both of which have far superior measurements.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  12. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    True that. Someone here brought that up a while back and found the juxtaposition of a tube amp alongside my solid state amps and "good measurements = good sound" approach to be a bit odd. That was in part why I discontinued the DG300B. I do actually listen to your feedback sometimes... :)

    I think it's fair to say that I've converted to the "dark side" (assuming that's the solid state, good measurements = good sound side). I'm fine with that. Once I experienced a clean sound I couldn't go back. Others are free to disagree. We don't all have to buy the same stuff or have the same opinion.

    Tom
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    ^ got it then. I am satisfied this explanation.
     
  14. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    They must enjoy what the 300B adds to the sound. I have no problem with that. It's a personal preference - similar to using a tone control. Those who prefer that tonal character will likely like amps that provide a similar harmonic structure.

    Tom
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    When there used to be a thing called CRTs, I played Quake 3 with all the eye candy turned off at 200+ FPS and with 200Hz v-sync. Yup, the higher end CRTs were able to do stuff like that.
     
  16. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    Yeah, but what did they sound like? :)

    Tom
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    High pitched whining emanating from the back of the CRT. Not sure if I can even hear this anymore.
     
  18. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    My 24" Sony fw900 sounded like popping when the CRT finally gave out.
     
  19. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Kids these days with their laptops and wireless this and that... back in my day we had to haul CRT's uphill in order to game with our friends.

    Oh man, I remember when I was young I could hear the neighbour's TV whine when they turned it on.

    Or how about the static pops simply from turning it off?
     
  20. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Exit stage left....
    ... and the thread has devolved into Old Man stories from way back when. Time to Lock. ;)
    any bets as to what measured worse:
    clacking of drive heads on 5.25" floppy discs or Zip100 drives?
    discuss.
     

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