ODAC Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Advice Threads' started by Everyday45, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I never compared them back to back, but at that level of the game I'd say they're comparable... but the e17k has a whole slew of functions including multi i/o capability, EQ, it has a decent built-in amp, battery, and is 2/3 the price of the odac.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 1
    • List
  2. JayC

    JayC Resident Crash Test Dummy

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    719
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Eindhoven
    I laughed too for a second, but stopped when I noticed that this thread has >50% of the number of replies on the two channel advice thread
     
  3. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Coolio! :)

    That was a serious question from me, by the way. I was considering something cheapo and portable.

    Looks like around the $200 price point, there's also the Teac HA-P50 for flavor, and Sony's PHA-1 and PHA-2 can be had for cheap as well. I'm personally quite a sucker for Wolfson chips so the PHA-1 is looking mighty tempting again... (I've had it before but I sold it)
     
  4. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,335
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Isn't the TEAC used literally as a paperweight in the Schiit offices? I remember seeing a picture of that somewhere.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 2
    • List
  5. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Yeah. I heard the DAP one. Kinda tubby/full/congested sounding. It worked well for bright things, though, like AKG K7xx series headphones (not the K7XX as that one is a bit full sounding).

    Still, I'm a sucker of that kinda sound, so there's that.
     
  6. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    small island claimed by China
    I heard the Teac HA-P50 in a store way way back and even back then in my prenatal state of audio awareness, I heard it that way too. Also, I couldn't get it to not draw power from my Note 3, even though it has a battery.
     
  7. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

    Banned Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Honestly, I just finished up my review of JDS Labs The Element. I was really impressed with the Dac! Compared to the Line out of my Hm 601 and Behring UCA 202, it had a more detail, that said I started with an oDac my self and I enjoyed it. My next upgrade was to my Audio GD NFB10ES2, really and truly I think the oDac is a nice place to start. If your willing to spend $100 plus.
     
  8. JayC

    JayC Resident Crash Test Dummy

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    719
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Eindhoven
    But thats the thing, a $100+ product is expected to fare better than a $30 one!

    But at the same time, the ODAC/O2 based stuff dont really live up to the competition around their prices. I say this based on my Element vs GOV2A experience above, plus what I've been reading here. I've come to trust some of the people's ears here, since I've heard similar things to what they've said. If you want to discount what I'm saying, go ahead. But you owe it to yourself and your review readers, now that you're in the $300+ range with the Element, to try out the Schiit/LH Labs/Audioquest/<insert other company> stuff at similar prices before blindly throwing out a recommendation for the ODAC.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 2
    • List
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  9. landroni

    landroni Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,295
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Yeah, if we reach $300 price tags then the Modi MB becomes a no-brainer as far as DACs are concerned. At 350$ a Modi MB & a Magni (Uber, for 50$ more; or even Vali 2 for an additional 70$) should definitely hold its own against similarly priced competition.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 2
    • List
  10. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

    Banned Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You may be right! An Honestly I'd love to hear them. I reached out to Schiit to get a Modi/Magni stack for a demo but the Customer Service rep I spoke too didn't "have any"

    Thankfully Amazon Stocks the Magni/Modi so I can buy and return to them without the reStock fee, but I'd rather not do that honestly.

    Still your 100% right, I really do need and want to hear the new standard in this price range.

    Also the oDac isn't what's in the Element, Their El Dac is a step above the oDac. They have a blog post about it on their website going over the differences, and honestly I found their elDac impressive, but still if any one has a Magni Multi Bit they'd like to send out to me, I'd be happy to cover shipping... other wise I might just do a buy/return through amazon

    I also tried PM'ing Jason Directly on Head fi [which is how I actually got my Vali 1 and Vali 2 demo's ] and he never got back to me. I was NOT a fan of the Vali 2, especially when the Garage 1217 Starlight is priced around the same point, and I think my... voicing that opinion. May have closed some doors with them directly
     
  11. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    8,443
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I really hate seeing this sort of thing when the purchaser has no intent of actually keeping the unit. Different matter if it's to compare units with the intent to keep one of them, but just to get a freebie for a review I think is pretty low.

    If you read his signature, you'd see it says that he'll rarely respond to PMs.

    I think it's much more likely that it's just not worth them sending out review units to random people at that end of the market, when they have a simple, well known, way to try out a unit, at low risk, if you're not sure what you want.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 10
    • List
  12. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

    Banned Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yeap, I agree with you completely. It's not something I've done since I was 19, that was back in 2013 or so? And I usually just bought stuff from WalMart tbh, It's not something I wish to do, but Amazon being as big a vendor as it is has the stock to sell and process a return, and still turn a profit. An even Schiit if I buy directly from them, will charge me a Re-Stocking fee, to cover their costs. So as some one in Retail, I've worked in both small and large vendors. And almost all of the large vendors protect them selves from people trying to get "a freebie for a review" or they have enough buying power, to turn a returned item as "gently used" and still cover their costs

    Still I'd like to hear it, I keep hearing about it. An I'd rather not take advantage of Amazon for the sake of creating content for my self and just to hear something

    An with the Schiitr open now, it's likely taking care of their need to ship anything out. JDS labs was happy send something out, and I appreciated that. Jeremy at Garage 1217 is also really easy to work with, as is Zach and EMF, heeck even Todd a TTVJ is easy to work with. Schiit used to be, as I got my Vali unit's as demo's from them. But as of lately they aren't as available,

    Still there is a Head Fi Meet coming up that I'm going to, and more than likely I'll give the MM stack a listen their.
     
  13. landroni

    landroni Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,295
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Impossible, my dear Watson. The original ODAC was the bestest possible evah, cause measurements. Any "objectivist" who you wouldn't ask, including the messiah Nwavguy, would tell you that. ALL other more expensive DACs sound the same as an ODAC, as any and all differences are beyond the human thresholds for audibility. Again, cause measurements! So it stands to logic then that the El Dac cannot be any betterer than the ODAC -- no DAC can!

    Unless, of course, they're just barefaced marketing liars who cornered themselves into the stupidest corners evah, where you cannot provide an upgrade for your product without losing face...
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 7
    • List
  14. SSL

    SSL Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,278
    Trophy Points:
    93
    How do you figure it being a "step above" the ODAC? It has better measurements and is marginally less money. As others have noted, nwavguy logic dictates that it should sound the same.
     
  15. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

    Banned Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yea the upgrade measures the better than the original, and honestly. Purely Subjectively, I started with the oDac and back then I compared it with my UCA 202 and I couldn't hear much of a difference. Maybe because at that time my Matrix mStage had to much distortion within it self to pick up on any improvements.

    I don't personally stand by Numbers as relating directly to how we hear things, but what I do like about The Element is the size and how it sounds. Granted, the Schiit Stack may sound better, when I get around to hearing it I'll have an opinion based on experience,

    An you may be right @landroni, JDS Labs may only be able to offer upgrades based only on objective data, which might be a hurdle they can't overcome without having serious consequences

    @SSL as far as it being better, it measures cleaner so on paper it's better. Is it worth the cost to Upgrade, that I can't say. I haven't compared the oDac and El Dac directly, what the El Dac does offer that the oDac didn't or doesn't is changeable filters, which you could say are forced flaws to result in positive change

    Some people may like that, my HM 901 has a "Vintage" Filter that introduces roll off on the Line Out, that objective flaw net's me a subjective gain some times.
     
  16. landroni

    landroni Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,295
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I will only note that on SBAF we tend not to blindly assume that something that measures better in lab testing automatically implies better perceived sonic performance. In fact, the correlation between testing measurements and sonic performance seems to be on the patchy side. And while testing measurements are good at identifying serious issues with the gear, they're largely ineffective at pointing out the good aspects.

    Now this is a pretty significant departure for the all DACs sound the same crowd. For years and years the armies of Nwavguy zombies have been preaching that you can't hear differences between DACs above the ODAC price-point, which necessarily implied that you can't hear the difference between various FIR filters (as many or even most DAC companies out there will use different filters, even for the same D/A IC). So now the cradle of "objectivist" design marketing is doing a huge U-Turn by providing selectable filters and claiming, necessarily I assume, that things sound different with different filters.

    So this, plus providing an upgrade to the perfectest DAC evah --- yeah, talk about losing face...
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  17. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

    Banned Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    63
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  18. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

    Banned Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Why yes, thank you good sir, how could I have FORGOTTEN... but seriously though, on the subject of the oDac. It clearly, from what most of you have experienced, under performs again'st newer Dacs in that Price Range.

    Though, there is a small crowd of tech guys, who don't care to be audiophiles. Instead, they like nice low objective measurements because that's all they know, and they like very convenient to own products. For those people, JDS Labs The Element is for them, and while I don't personally agree with... the criteria they look for when deciding if something is "good" I can respect them enough, not to insult them. An having heard The Element, I can respect JDS Labs enough for knowing an catering to their customer base.

    I doubt we will ever see any of them here, in this kind of forum. You guys are pretty hard core, and I respect that. You care for quality and only for quality, and I really respect that. I learn a lot here, but outside of here other people have needs that are above and beyond quality, I'd like to be able to help both kinds of people. So I do my best to participate and converse with both kinds of people
     
  19. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,294
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Home Page:
    What does that mean? If you have a different opinion, observation, experience etcetera you are free to share that.

    In general we do not like dogma. If the NWAV Guy-cult had been less dogmatic I would have considered his or her creations. But because a priori there was so much dogma the followers became contrarians in the audio hobby. If you like your NWAV Guy-device, enjoy. Just stop preaching about the measurements and your absolute truths.

    When do you finally get it?
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 4
    • List
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  20. landroni

    landroni Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,295
    Trophy Points:
    93
    They better not be, because when they do they tend to end up here, one way or another, or just go away if they're smart; /r/headphones or "Sound Science" on HF would be more welcoming places for them.

    I don't believe that you understand that my gripe isn't with JDS Labs itself, because all they did was provide a relatively well performing and well measuring device at an affordable price-point. My problem is with the army of deluded zombies that Nwavguy has spawned, and that have used ODAC and O2 as their holy grail for "perfect" audio reproduction, and that have for years and years kicked and screamed that this was the best possible audio reproduction, ever, and that all those who claimed otherwise (e.g. hearing diffs between DACs or amps) were somehow ignorant fools, complacent to their confirmation biases, unscientific audiophools, that couldn't get "science" (as if looking at two or three headline testing measurements told you EVERYTHING there was to know about a device, any device, or made you much of a scientist). The bad blood resulting from the aggressive and arrogant posturing by this crowd makes it only so that the O2 and ODAC (and any of their potential successors) are natural targets for some idle and mindless bashing, always confronting what these devices represent with the realities and logic of our world, and the actual constraints of the scientific method.


    Now, you keep getting back to the The Element, and I have to ask "why?". If you've heard it and liked it, great, please describe the sound and explain why you believe this is a sonically well performing device. This would be helpful to people who come back later and want to get an idea of how this particular gear sounds like.

    And if nice low objective measurements is the genuine objective here (and not just a nominally stated goal used only to deflect from the true purpose of praising the ODAC/O2 and its ostensible design philosophy to the heavens), then at 350$ The Element is woefully overpriced:
    - you can get the Modi 2 & Magni 2 stack for 200$
    - or you can get the Fulla 2 for 100$

    So while I don't doubt that The Element can work perfectly fine for many, esp. if considering factors like aesthetics or form-factor, there are cheaper alternatives that can get you there if low objective measurements is what is truly being sought.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 5
    • List

Share This Page