Pi2 Design Idiot-Proof Ready-To-Go RPi/AES Streamer

This is exactly it. I almost posted in the other thread but just pushing the support to the distro maintainers isn’t going to win any friends. If it was me I’d either work out an arrangement with them (which could be as simple as sending them product to test against) or fork one of the projects and then create a streamlined version that could be more easily supported but even so support will be a lot of work even with a community willing to help itself with minor issues.

I totally 100% agree configuration on these devices is a problem but open source projects prioritize what users (including developers) want which tends to be new features which inevitably leads to more configuration options and so things get ever more Byzantine for new users. I don’t really have a solution (other than fork and simplify) just offering perspective on why it is the way it is.

 

FWIW you don't need to understand Linux for the software side of Volumio or MoOde (and probably others, those are the two I've tried). Sure I've ssh'd in because I know how and wanted to do some extra tinkering but it's totally unnecessary. They are simply a web interface and http://<player_name>.local usually works. If that doesn't work, using fing to get your IP is a small bit more effort. This ease of initial setup does assume you can plug into an ethernet cable which isn't always the case for people.

The UI does leave ... room for improvement but there aren't many settings that need to be changed (output device, WifFi info if desired, activate Airplay/UPnP/DLNA if desired) and it's a one-time config and you're done.

In my opinion the biggest issue for broad consumer use is how unreliable UPnP implementations are. I have yet to find it works reliably for more than a week without needing to restart either the Pi, Audirvana, my computer, or all three. If I simply use the web interface this isn't a problem but when I want to stream Qobuz through MoOde, I'm forced to use UPnP and Audirvana or mConnect (don't have an Android that will install BubbleUPnP, maybe I'd have a different opinion if I could try that UPnP implementation).

I think the other issues can be handled for the majority of cases with good documentation, assuming they have ethernet as an option rather than WiFi only. Some of the edge cases will need a lot of support and a few challenging issues easily turns into a time consuming pain in the ass. Those would need to be factored into the selling price as purr1n mentioned or simply have a generous refund policy to cut your losses.

 

Indeed. Read the tales of woe in the Roon users forum and despair. Everything that could go wrong goes wrong, from bad memory and SSD to erroneously configured fixed IP addresses to obnoxious ISP routers. I run my own networks with prosumer gear, I have decades of experience with Unix/Linux, I was doing networking when Ethernet was still like this, and I was loading new versions of Unix V7 and 4.1 BSD from magtape onto PDP-11s and VAxen. And yet I still get stuck from time to time. The only consumer-friendly solutions are closed systems (Apple...) that avoid unpredictability by restricting choice. Better documentation and standard configurations for open systems are all good, but plug-and-play in open systems is fantasy.

 

I wonder if @Michael Kelly could work a deal with moOde to use their software but with a tweaked ui? Someone with some web dev skills could make a new UI with way less options that are easier to access and understand so people have less issues.

 

What would you expect from something called Universal Plug and Play? Not universal, not plug and go, and least of all play freely. I looked a bit at the protocol and its implementations some years ago, what a sad mess, guaranteed to yield buggy and subtly incompatible implementations. This Wikipedia quote says everything that needs to be said:

The UPnP protocols were promoted by the UPnP Forum, a computer industry initiative to enable simple and robust connectivity to stand-alone devices and personal computers from many different vendors. The Forum consisted of more than eight hundred vendors involved in everything from consumer electronics to network computing.​

The quality of a protocol is inversely proportional to the number of participants in its design.

 

I too suspect (like many others) the physical assembly isn't the real issue for most of the general public. It's the setup and software, etc. - this doesn't work, that doesn't work, this accidentally happened during setup, etc. I can tell you that many capable but non technical people I know see the instructions, jargon, etc. for stuff like this and their eyes glaze over and they typically move on to whatever generic solution they were going to use before.

Agree with the above comment though - the tricky part here is actually finding something universal... especially something that won't break with an Android or iOS update, new format, firmware update, new devices, etc.

 

From what I can tell of the SBAF audience, or at least the more vocal ones, you might find more takers if the cost of a DAC and amp went into stupidly uber clocks instead, since most people here who are looking to get a transport probably won't be too intetested in an additional side DAC. The DAC/amp might be more appealing to customers outside of SBAF though.

 

This is possible with Volumio, no keyboard or mouse needed but a couple plug-ins need to be installed first. Haven’t tried with MoOde, may be possible there too.

 

I'm going to be running MoOde with a touchscreen. I think from everything I've read, I've already accepted the fact that I need to get an RJ45 in the back of the thing and need a mini -> normal HDMI cable and some old USB KB+M laying around. Might not absolutely need all those things, but tinkering around with the thing and getting it just right might require it all.

 

Reading this with great interest but hoping the the current PI2AES will still be available in 2021?
I just started a miniaturization project of my headphone setup: DAC goes first: BDA-2 to to be replaced with RME ADI-2 pro, streamer will go next and PI2AES is #1 candidate.

 

we just started another build of 250 units. The PI2AES will be in production as long as there is interest. The all buttoned up unit that's hopefully easier to use will be just another choice for folks who are comfortable with the pi and perhaps a much better choice for those who are not comfortable with a raspberry pi.

 

It might be nice to create a thread that talks about the control software available for Android & iOS separately, and each of their pros & cons. Maybe even a table "feature matrix" so people who care about certain features can easily eliminate software that won't meet their needs.

Given some time, and after I receive mine and get it set up, potentially I could work on something that is simple to install/use/just works on the software side. It's a sad fact that developers don't usually think about making their stuff like this, without management oversight.

Can't promise anything though!

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Also, found Glider Music Player ($10) through an online search for the iOS side. I'll probably try it once I get a device set up.

 

From what I can tell no Tidal or Qobuz support otherwise I'd also give it a try. Still an interesting find.

 

In late on this thread, but would also be keen to help with documentation.

My previous work
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...uide-for-the-nervous.3969/page-16#post-207688

 

I think the simplified Pi2 box is brilliant and would sell pretty nicely. Just think thrice about the support load increase.

 

I currently use a brand X that ends in berry hat. I’ve used both volumio and Moode, both strictly by the web interface. My only comment / concern is that while the web interface works well (enough. I guess), they both seem kind of DIY in feel and execution. In good with it, as the whole set up is build it and make it work. If the prebuilt option is to be a professional feeling product, my concern is with the interface spoiling that feel.

That said, an all in one with built in SSD memory and a screen is interesting.

ok, that’s it from the cheap seats...

 

The design I am working on will certainly look professional! But, it is still a Raspberry Pi underneath and will have some of it's quirks, warts, failings, etc. We will market this as an open source design with full documentation on the HW (not schematics) so anyone could adapt SW for it.

Obviously this does not meet everyone's definition of idiot-proof, but then, nothing based on the PI will. Even Bryston can't hide the PI nature of it's streaming DAC's, and they cost several $K.

At the end of the day this product will eliminate many of the issues stemming from building a PI based streamer, including parts acquisition, assembly, software loading and audio player configuration. What's left will be the flaws inherent in the software players and how they handle the latest streaming formats and remote operation. But, with some basic network knowledge most users will be able to get it up and running almost immediately. The on-board SSD option lets the unit stand alone with no need for a PC/MAC or other host.

 

Or just get RoPieee, which is for those who only want to use Roon on it.