Pictures of your speaker system

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Cspirou, Nov 6, 2015.

Tags:
  1. winders

    winders Compensating for micropenis

    Friend CBC
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,760
    Dislikes Received:
    347
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    That's a lot of toe in! Is a chair better suited to long listening session something you are looking at?
     
  2. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Likes Received:
    453
    Dislikes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Makes me wonder how you took that first picture @ohhgourami were you hanging from the chandelier? :D
     
  3. ohhgourami

    ohhgourami Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    602
    Dislikes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    SGV, CA
    They are Innersound Eros Mk2 speakers which is the father to the Sanders Model 10. The panels have a very narrow sweet spot so they need to be perfectly angled at the listener. It's not possible for 2 people to sit side by side to get the full experience but the advantage is the amazing image and separation.

    Despite how the chair looks to many people, the chair is actually very comfortable. Keeps your spine nicely aligned so you sit straight, also encourages you to sit in the sweet spot as opposed to slouching.

    I took the picture while standing on a ladder trying to unwrap the protective film on that light. Figured it was a good opportunity to take that pic.
     
    treboR, Psalmanazar and MrTeaRex like this.
  4. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Likes Received:
    453
    Dislikes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Thanks for satisfying my curiosity
     
  5. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,471
    Dislikes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Philly - Yo
    Sorry but your post brought this to mind...

    [​IMG]
     
    Lyer25, purr1n and elmoe like this.
  6. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex Grumpiest admin

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    9,247
    Dislikes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All I could think of when it was posted was “One is the loneliest number that you’ll ever do...”
     
    Syzygy likes this.
  7. brencho

    brencho Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,545
    Dislikes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    LA
    Need the bottom of chair cut out a la Casino Royale to torture people as they listen to Beethoven
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    47,120
    Dislikes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    Oh, that's horrible even thinking about that.
     
    9suns, mscott58 and zerodeefex like this.
  9. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,617
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    And i thought they were Martin Logan's this whole time
     
  10. ekfc63

    ekfc63 Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    Likes Received:
    30
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Canada
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  11. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

    Friend
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,778
    Dislikes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Moved the left speakers further over after convincing my wife we didn't need to keep 4 chairs around the dining table all the time (they would be in front of the speakers otherwise). Before I was using the balance on the PT-100 to center the image, but it always seemed slightly off. Now the center image is insane. These KEFs really have crazy good soundstage and imaging.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  12. Superexchanger

    Superexchanger Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Likes Received:
    137
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    MN
    [Trying again, reporting/flagging my broken post above for removal]

    Two perspectives of my budding 2.0 system. Usher 6381's (outer), KEF LS50's (inner), with an Empyrean and Elex dashed in for good measure. Not much to say about the amplification, itself being a higher-end Denon AVR ( ... I know), but it legitimately sounds good to me for music, and I'm typically a transducer-first optimizer anyway.

    Looking forward to exploring proper amplification (and basement decoration) soon.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Neilvg

    Neilvg Acquaintance

    Executed
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Los Gatos
    Home Page:
    What ATC's have you heard, and in what room? Also how are you measuring them? I had Bob Hodas (https://www.bing.com/search?q=bob hodas&pc=cosp&ptag=G6C999AEAF735706C&form=CONBNT&conlogo=CT3210127) measure our ATC's and our room, and they were the opposite of boomy. Yes they are lean on the low-end but actually quite extended. I am speaking here of my ATC SCM150ASL's, but I have heard SCM25's, SCM50's and SCM300's. Saying they are crap is an odd thing to say, considering these speakers are tools - and not necessarily meant to be the most pleasing to listen to, they are killer for mixing and detecting flaws in recordings.

    I've honestly never really heard slam from an ATC, and I have the 15" woofer connected as well. But then again, if I want slam, I'll mix with some slam, I don't need my speakers to produce this artificially.

    I always wonder at people's perceptions of their gear and what they assume is the correct presentation, when in fact, more often then not, the engineers didn't intend it that way at all - but we are simply imposing are aesthetic preferences.

    Take hip hop for example - most hip hop productions want that super low end extension, punch, and translatability across multiple speakers sizes and types. However, most hip-hop artists want to monitor these mixes super loudly in the studio. Guess what that does to the mix? It gives you LESS low-end. Many engineers I know have had to go in afterward and re-calibrate those mixes to actually translate as the artist intended, at very low volumes, so the bass actually ended up being prominent, and not muddy. Anyway... ATC's for me are like large NS10's. They are very full range, but not necessarily hugely euphonic or satisfying sonically... you have to work at a mix to get it where they sound good, and then, you really have a good mix. I wouldn't listen to them for casual listening unless I had the best source material...
     
    msommers and murphythecat like this.
  14. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Likes Received:
    453
    Dislikes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Except nobody gives a damn what the engineer's "aesthetic preference" is, what most people want to reproduce is live sound, especially considering the millions of shitty mastering and poorly recorded performances out there.
     
  15. Neilvg

    Neilvg Acquaintance

    Executed
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Los Gatos
    Home Page:
    The hardest part about responding to this is how to unpack what you have written, and address your misunderstandings. I'll take a stab at it:

    First of all, everyone cares about the engineer's (and the producer's) aesthetic preference, they just may not realize it, and that is what I am trying to point out. So few music lovers, and so called audiophiles actually have a clue as to the true production process when it comes to the music they love -- and I might as well say it just materialized as if by some form of magic, because even basic concepts in this regard are lacking, and therefore, proper viewpoints. That is OK in an of itself, but on forums like this, where opinions fly on all manner of minutiae when it comes to musical perception, I think understanding the source and what goes into its creation is important. So, without further ado, here are some random thoughts -

    - There are very few live studio recordings -- even if you are listening to the kind of music that truly was performed live, such as a live concert, something that is notoriously difficult to capture in its raw intensity, and vibe. If your referring to a live, in studio recording, these will almost always feature overdubs, mixing decisions, isolated instruments for cleaner separation, and mixing techniques used to glue it all together into a seamless picture. The job of the engineer is pivotal in creating an illusion that so good enough to fool you -- our job is to make you think it is live. We do this with truly live recordings as well - because those are a mess (even with the best content, and bands)! Then, your so called great equipment can reproduce it to various degrees and you can squabble on what sounds better and more 'real'-ly there.

    - Even live recordings in a live environment feature overdubs or isolated instruments. These have to be processed by the engineer, and aesthetically matched so they feel live, and work with the overall sound. Live sound is notoriously messy. If you really were honest about wanting it to sound live, it would be a loud, and trebly mess. True 'live sound' in a recording is all production, and an illusion produced by professionals to satisfy consumers. Do you think we would mix the raw room mics in a venue to generate our polished live studio mix? Hell no, that would sound like shit. (That is a good thing and that is a major part of the job).

    - Most modern music isn't live at all, so when people always say such and such studio recording sounds like I am there with the musician, I smile (and laugh). How many people here actually have stood behind the engineers and producers clear through the end of a professionally produced record and seen all the processing that goes on? Not just some random record, but one that sounds great, gains popular approval, and is actually listened to by many... We produce records like that... and I can tell you, we have to do a lot to make it sound natural.. thats my job.. you just don't know it, and that is by design. If you notice the mix, we've failed to some degree. We want you to notice the music, and ideally, some ambient context that gives the music a space, and a place. I personally take impulse responses of the rooms I record in and apply those to the deadened instruments recorded in isolation rooms (so musicians can play together live, and not have bleed), and then use mixing techniques to 'bring them into the room together'. This happens all the time..

    - The best sounding records use these techniques, not the shitty ones you might think. There are still a ton of really good recordings and music being produced today. The main difference is that they aren't being pushed by popular culture like they were in the 60's and 70's, and less so as time has gone on. They are still there, probably not in the Top 40, you just have to dig a little.

    - So I will end by saying it depends on the music you listen to. But you said 'what most people want to reproduce is live sound', and even if that was the only kind of music you wanted to listen to, e.g. live concerts, even then, the engineer and production team has everything to do with the success of that capture and how it aesthetically sounds. EVERYTHING. And if you are saying that most people want to hear the sound as if it was live.. then there you have it.. that is the job of the engineering team to do.

    The sounds in a studio are like a chef in a kitchen. You go out and harvest your crops (tracking the recording), you chop and prepare the ingredients and follow a recipe (editing). You cook the ingredients and meld them together into a seamless dish (mixing), and finally you don't just eat the food out of the pot, you plate it, and present it on a nice dish to someone (mastering). Finally at the end, you shouldn't notice where the items were harvested (tracked), how they were prepared (edited), how they were cooked (mixed), or even how it was plated (mastered), you should notice what we intend for you to notice - the flavors, the textures, the food (music) itself.. what IS it?... what does it bring to mind?.. where does it take us?.. how does it open our senses... our emotions...

    Beyond this, the reproduction technology you use just enhances this effect and allows you to tune the sound further, generally according to someone's particular biology/anatomy... my wife is an audiologist, she can talk about how varied our hearing anatomy, and subsequent hearing perception can actually be.

    -neilvg
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  16. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Likes Received:
    453
    Dislikes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    For the time I've spent in the studio recording, this egocentric point of view some engineers have is what has bugged me the most. You really gotta think highly of yourself to write something like the above, and I gotta tell you, this is why most musicians fucking hate recording and would rather tour. What condescending drivel, I am sorry for myself I wasted 5 minutes actually reading through it. This kind of thinking is only a step below studio execs raping you for a dollar and forcing bands to write 50 fucking ballads because it sells.

    At some point you have to realize you're making money thanks to someone else's art no? The irony is that you're writing a novel paralleling your 32 track mixer fingering skills as if watching you cut and paste in fucking Protools is equivalent to Gordon Ramsey slicing up a chicken and prodding it until it feels like an orgasm in your mouth. You realize that there are likely a ton of people on these forums that not only are also studio engineers, but musicians who've worked in the industry for a long time?

    Requoted for emphasis

    -elmoe
     
    direstraitsfan98 likes this.
  17. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,773
    Dislikes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Consider context of the post. ATCs pretty crap as listening speakers for what the buyer who just wants to be impressed is actually getting. Most people want that euphony. ATCs are a little to the opposite of euphony except for the hyper detail, which is itself euphonic. They are colored themselves slightly and not exactly normal sounding speakers.

    I’ve heard many of them at shows, some of the hifi only passives at dealers, and SCM 20,25,50 in studios of varying treatments. ATC 25 wtf. ATC 50 much better but too soon of a roll off in lower bass + crossover to the dome + what is probably the relatively unequed in the active crossover response of the woofer is weightless boom boom boom to me at the right listening distance which means not being able to nail down the sound of kicks and basses, which is what I use bigger speakers for beyond just getting really loud. The even bigger ones that go slightly lower probably would be better in studio controls rooms built around them with subs like you have but I’d rather just get something else at that point as I don’t really like listening to subs and like them even less for production work. The SCM 20 is actually my favorite for what it is. I just don’t like ATCs that much. Like they’re good and I’d take a pair of SCM20ASL if they were free but otherwise nah.
     
    direstraitsfan98 and Neilvg like this.
  18. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,773
    Dislikes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah dude studio sound is fake and the ones that sound more real actually sound dirty. It’s really fucking obvious that it’s fake but truly dirty never got on tv or the radio even if the stooges opened for Bowie, the stooges were not repulsion.

    An binaural recording of an all stage noise show never sounds good even though it is real. The illusion is perceived as more real than reality yet the listener can easily break the illusion. I prefer productions that sound like real people playing and with interesting choices. I’d rather hear rototoms, typewriter kicks, and nuked trash can snares than ezdrummer and Steven slate but most wouldn’t.
     
    Lyer25 and direstraitsfan98 like this.
  19. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,773
    Dislikes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The records done fast and dirty with well rehearsed and refined material always sound better than poppy pop pop and Modern rock UAD plugins and Born in the USA snare and auto tune and def leopard and technical brutal fusion “we can’t even play this shit and need you to fix it” jazzy shred sperg shit. That’s why the first or second album always sounds the best and the magic is never recaptured. A mix done in a day or two usually is better than one done in a month.
     
    crazychile, Neilvg and elmoe like this.
  20. Neilvg

    Neilvg Acquaintance

    Executed
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Los Gatos
    Home Page:
    And at no point do you actually take anything I have said and use my words to refute me or say otherwise, just a bunch of adolescent name calling...

    It's not egocentric... playing live is playing live and all about the musicians (except for the FOH engineers who always deserve credit). Recording and making studio recordings are about both the musicians and the engineer and producer. And almost all musicians will tell you that. Who are you to say otherwise?

    And by the way, we are talking about MUSIC REPRODUCTION here, not the quality of the music, or the art involved, which would be all about the musicians... that's a different topic. Again, we are speaking about MUSIC REPRODUCTION and SPEAKERS, and hence, this is a topic that engineers should and do follow, and have a whole lot more involvement than your post, to which I responded, gave credit for.

    Now, there is no need for you to name call, or speak in adolescent terms. If you take issue with particular words I used, then use your own powers of speech and respond in a meaningful way.

    PS - most musicians hate recording and would rather tour because that's what makes money. Recording is hard work, and when it amounts to little else than marketing material for the tour, sooner or later artists would rather just tour, where they can at least have a chance at profits. That being said, the studio will always be there for those who want to turn their live art into a concrete statement (albeit from a given point/place in time).

    -neilvg
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
    Tobes, msommers, Riotvan and 2 others like this.

Share This Page