SBAF DAC Talk II

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Maxx134, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Cost-benefit calculation is highly subjective and personal, as is the ability to hear (or imagine) differences and to care about them. Clocks matter. Maybe they make digital less sucky, maybe they don't. Now all we need are magnetic cables to align electrons and stop them from smearing everyone's audio chains.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  2. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    There's really no reason not to. Many of today's DACs, interfaces, and ADCs have awesome clocks and word clock in and out functionality to serve as a master clock. If you need to synch multiple pieces of digital gear together and have some old crap? There's no reason not to just upgrade to something that has that instead of getting a meme clock. This wasn't the case just a few years ago though

    Pink Paper #2 from the defunct Pink Noise website had a good explaination of how the clock meme got started. Basically the Digidesign pro tools crap sounded like crap as the clock was jittery crap to accommodate some old variable speed standard for the film market. Since Pro Tools required dedicated hardware and is the standard for larger studios, those studios were all forced to buy external word clocks to get good sound and clear imaging.

    The dispute was due to smaller studios and mastering studios not being locked into Digidesign hardware. They were able to buy better gear in the first place place for which slaving to an external clock had no benefit so they heard no benefit. External clocking is usually detrimental to the sound of digital gear with excellent internal clocks.

    If the sound of your gear is highly source dependent, then you should just probably buy better gear hah
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    C'mon guys, external clocks are for syncing multiple pieces of digital gear in a studio environment. Let's not go down the overly complex and convoluted road of Rednet>Mutec->DAC chains again.

    The only thing I can buy off on are cheap and effective Wyrd, Regen, Singxer or Eitr type solutions. Otherwise jump up to next level of DAC. External clocks won't matter unless your data source takes wordclock in anyway, although I suppose it would work as a standalone for USB sources.
     
  4. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    This path reserved only for bazelio and rmkl007
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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  6. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Don't top consumer DACs reclock the signal anyway? How useful is an external clock in that case?
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Well, a consumer DAC wouldn't have a wordclock input.

    As an aside, a lot of pro DACs now have clock generators and a wordclock out.
     
  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Friend Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Only stuff like Bricasti M1 Gold Edition, the ultimate conspicuous consumer DAC, has word clock input. There's just no point. Even all the psychotic network stuff people are obsessed with now is LOL; they could just buy three more computers to play their uh rutracker downloads throughout the house more cheaply
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    So just a status on a SoCal DAC off:
    • Crane Song is late delivering the Solaris. No idea on ETA.
    • Doing some research on the Burl, I'm not sure I want to go this direction of something that might be overly warm.
    • Going to pick up DM Convert 2.
    • Please recommend a list of specific recordings down to the master. Do not make a huge list. A handful is more than enough. Pick good recordings and marginal recordings. Pick bright recordings, pick dark or overly laid back ones. Again, please list recording details, or at least get it ready (or send to me) if you plan to attend or want the groups to evaluate.
    • Going to throw Gungnir Multibit into the mix. Despite slightly inferior technicalities to Yggdrasil A2, it's more neutral, less warm and has meaner upper harmonics.
    • I will probably throw two sessions. A weekday one on Tuesday and one on the weekend. I may setup 511B horns with suitable compression driver because this will be more accurate and less weird than the Oris horns, particularly off-axis.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Add Forrsell MADA2(a) too. Anyone know difference between a and non a?
     
  11. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Re: Tracks
    Massive Attack - Karmacoma
    Mumford & Sons - There Will Be Time
    Diana Krall - Case of You
    Chvrches - Never Ending Circles (should sound like shit, great bass though)
     
  12. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    You can use a better clock than what your DAC uses internally (the likes of oven controlled clocks).
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I dunno, that SOS article makes me wonder about the effectiveness of external clocks. It seems clocks are best implemented close to the device that needs it, not run though a few feet or many feet of coax. Sometimes I wonder if it's more a matter of different than better.
     
  14. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I'm not familiar with any of that. (I'll check it out though.)

    Throw something in there that every audiophile and their grandmother has heard. SRV Tin Pan Alley, or Daft Punk Get Lucky, to name a few. It helps to provide a global point of reference on any comparisons made.

    You can tell me your DAC sounds really good with rachmaninoff's second bowel movement in F major by the London Toilet Harmonic, and I would just blow off the statement as useless because I don't know it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  15. winders

    winders boomer

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    As Ted Smith says, you don't need the clock to be accurate over a long period of time which is what the oven is trying to get you. You need the clock to be both accurate from moment to moment AND have low phase noise. This is why getting a DAC with a great clock is a much better idea than getting an external clock to use with $250 DACs.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    What $250 DAC comes with a wordclock in?
     
  17. winders

    winders boomer

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    None. I was addressing what @Elnrik posted with a reference to the experiment AtomicBob did and how applicable that is to real world usage. Even if a DAC has an input for an external word clock, you have to wonder why any one of us in the consumer world would see any real benefit from it instead of just buying a DAC with a better clock. A professional studio environment with multiple devices that can take an external word clock signal makes the conversation at least reasonable.

    To the peanut gallery: Enough with the damn dislikes already.......
     
  18. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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  19. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Agree

    My one off clock shenanigans: DLIII DAC Update (sorry if you guys have seen this before, I refer to it sometimes, getting long in the tooth no doubt)


    My theory to the improvement (ok, difference) even with the compromised distance added the the clock/dac chip is:

    A. new tech/better spec crystals (NDK etc) replacing fairly common ~2006 era ones
    B. The same clock driving the transport and dac, a single clock domain recovering the spdif instead of 2 independent


    Anyway, I keep it around and still listen to it at times, it's different enough from Multibit.
    Sooo... my little experiment on an old dac! Have the stuff laying around, experiment!


    EXT clocks on a new Dac? Hmmm not sold, don't do it ;D we know too much now!

    PS... Also, excluding PRO gear-- I though the point of EXT clock in was to slave the Dac to the Transport clock (like I did)... not just a clock "upgrade" ?!
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  20. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    Someone who was at a couple of the summer micro meets owns one. I guess we can see if he can get involved if you haven't had contact yet.
     

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