SBAF DAC Talk II

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Maxx134, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Friend Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You can have a DAC with a great clock that's still poop and DACs with meh clocks that are okay. I'm sure Mytek has clock meme now and Mytek is ebola
     
  2. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8,951
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Denver CO
    Home Page:
    What did I post and where, because you have me confused.
     
  3. winders

    winders boomer

    Friend
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    Wow. That should have been @Clemmaster. I have no idea how I confused a Doberman with the Eiffel Tower. I can’t even blame alcohol!
     
  4. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8,951
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Denver CO
    Home Page:
    Yeah. All I said is I don't want toilet music in a DAC comparison.

    (FWIW - Dobermans are better than buildings.)
     
  5. winders

    winders boomer

    Friend
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    I am sure you can. But making sure you get a better DAC with a great clock was implicit.
     
  6. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Likes Received:
    385
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Well this looks it won't get resolved until someone buys an external clock & tests it with one of the higher end DACs.
     
  7. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

    Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,004
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Estonia
    LOL, this thread.

    It's supposed to be so that multibit dacs are less susceptible to clock phase noise due to the relative immunity to output level independence of clock. Maybe this gives them better plankton performance?
    Level might be good, but timing of the levels still matters, like for SD.
    So theoretically, a R-2R dac, for example, can get away with mediocre clock and sound good.
     
  8. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    EU
    For a DAC only, you have to buy the Forsell MDAC-2a, the MADA-2a is an AD converter and a DAC, you would be paying more for the AD section that you will not use.
    Resuming, the "right one" to buy for the DAC-off is the MDAC-2a, the MADA-2a is the same but + AD converter.

    Btw, that product nomenclature is a fucking nightmare.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    83,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I know, but MADA 2(a) seems more available on the used market.

    As an aside, I did not care for another higher end pro DAC from that era which was hyped: ULN8. It sounded like a lot of pro stuff then, lean, full of digititus, and felt PWD1->2 was a tick less flat and resolving.
     
  10. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Friend Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Watch out. The Dangerous stuff is balanced only and runs hot. I've read the Crane Song stuff does too.

    I like to check stuff with the famous Philip Glass Mishima soundtrack. Lots of transients and treble

    I don't know. I was thinking of the cheap Tascam DA 3000 recorder, which the Pink Noise paper 2 said had a mediocre if adequate clock but the DAC in the box itself sounded very good to me, certainly better than the Benchmark and RME better measuring boxes but ymmv
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    83,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Do you know exactly how hot? I looked at their manual, and all that was indicated were distortion figures at +4dBU and +22dBU. I would infer that +22dBu is max; if so, then there should be no problem. I'm running everything through Cinemag line level transformers (pro stuff, as they don't really make consumer parts) for balanced to unbalanced, and any of my tube amps inputs should be fine. I'm not exactly running a O2 amp that will clip from anything more than 1V, which is like +3dBU.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  12. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Friend
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,741
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    Just to add to the ridiculousness but Auralic has a crazy 4 box system from their G2 series that has a master clock -- In case you were thinking of selling your car and getting a dac setup lulz
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    83,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Oh gawd. I was just going to say that with all these conversations about clocks, the ChiFi manufacturers like Singxer, AG-D, Matrix, and Holo will start implementing them. You know, just because it's cool and another thing to tweak. Imagine a Singxer "Plutonium" Clock plugged into an Holo or AG-D DAC.
     
  14. winders

    winders boomer

    Friend
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    SOtM already has a $3500 clock to go with their $1400 sMS-200ultra with which they recommend their USB reclocker for another $1400. Hmmm....$6300 for an Ethernet to USB streamer setup that is probably no better, just different, than the $875 Sonore ultraRendu.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  15. direstraitsfan98

    direstraitsfan98 D2Girls v2.0

    BWC
    Joined:
    May 11, 2018
    Likes Received:
    296
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Canada
    9.74v. For the Convert 2.
     
  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Friend Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    From the Source manual in front of me:
    "NOTE: Speaker outs can run at -6dB (factory setting) or unity gain (remove jumpers 3 and 4)
    Maximum input level: > +26 dBu
    Outputs: The meter and speakers outputs are fully balanced and 600 ohm drive capable to >+26dBu.
    Maximum output level > +26 dBu"
    I've never used the Source into unbalanced gear or messed with the jumpers. They probably would add more detail but more gain.

    Convert 2 and 8 have a calibration button (I've never heard them and bought the Source over the 2 as I heard it before and the desktop form factor) but Xec and Mrtrex told me it still runs hot. It has a pot that can be bypassed if you need even more gain reduction. The Convert specs on the Dangerous website have lower distortion at higher levels of course
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    83,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I thought I remember that the DM Convert 2 output can be padded down using dip switches. TBH, I'll like keep variable to mininum as the Solaris is 18dBU on the fixed outputs. The transformers I have will do 22dBU (9.74Vrms), but might be pushing it. A 22dBU 20Hz signal will probably have 10% distortion (30Hz is fine, just that things to crap rapidly below that). I'm probably overthinking as I don't think I have any recordings with a 20Hz 0dbFS signal.
     
  18. direstraitsfan98

    direstraitsfan98 D2Girls v2.0

    BWC
    Joined:
    May 11, 2018
    Likes Received:
    296
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Canada
    The credits sequence to the movie Edge of Tomorrow has something like that. I measured 124db spl once. Loudest I've ever pushed my system. Pretty sure you'd blow your subwoofer up if it was a cheapo one. Weird how the loudest part of that movie is the damn credits intro and not the actual movie. Lol
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    83,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Ok, I should be fine then with the calibration. The -14dbFS setting should be perfect and consistent with the Solaris output. -14dbFS should be +4dBu "reference" level. At 0dbFS, 4 + 14 = 18dBu.
     
  20. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Friend Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Xec said he was okay. I read something a while ago where people using Focals had problems with the Source (?) and Dangerous recommended some extreme pads for Focals as Focal is lol. You should be fine.
     

Share This Page