Schiit Urd Impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Jul 12, 2023.

  1. RestoredSparda

    RestoredSparda Friend

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    If it was a review I would have written something a bit more in depth than "kicks my streamer's ass". It was a few paragraphs of initial impressions. I was enjoying Urd and felt like swearing. That's about it. I don't take audio gear personally either, it's just for fun.

    I'm curious if you hear differences between streamers @winders? I'm interested why you landed on Red and not something cheaper and about as good measurement-wise? Not being sarcastic, honestly curious.

    And for sure, as @purr1n said, anything I post is obviously IMO and all that. My gear, my headspace, my brain cells, my ears, etc. Who gives a rip what I think.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2023
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    That's what I took from it. I totally understood the context of your statement "kicks my streamer's ass". (We are a small enough community that we should get these kinds of statements, especially if they are so ridic!) I don't know Winders personally. However, another member texted me to remind me that he kinda has small penis syndrome. He gets really sensitive if anybody remotely says that any of his gear is not da best, highest value, etc. Even though in this case, his gear has absolutely nothing to do your informal comparison. LOLZ.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2023
  3. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    The term is SDE. Get it right
     
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  4. caute

    caute Lana Del Gayer than you

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    lit all I heard was bits are bits
     
  5. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Boring. Old man yells at cloud.
     
  6. rfernand

    rfernand Almost "Made"

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    And now, some art.

    [​IMG]
    “The delicate sound of a dead horse’s stiff flesh under rhythmic pummeling in 44.1/16” (Anonymous)
     
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  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Means absolutely nothing. In fact, if you want to argue measurements or "bits are bits" even though you claim you are "not a bits by bits guy by any stretch" (it would do you well to make up your mind), I'd argue the Rockna is better despite worse jitter numbers. The spectrum looks cleaner. It's the nature of the jitter, not the singular number.

    Holo Red
    [​IMG]

    Rockna. Higher jitter number, but less crap in the spectrum: less grass, more ordered grass in the ultrasonics, and much lower at 50Hz jitter.
    [​IMG]

    Heck, I've even argue that the Mercury streamer, despite MUCH poorer singular jitter numbers, is competitive with the Holo Red. There no jitter in the 150-200Hz area and ultrasonics other than the 88kHz spike doesn't look worse despite the higher ps floor.

    Mercury streamer
    [​IMG]

    Again, it's the nature of jitter. And even then I'd like to see more study in this area. What I would be curious is @GoldenOne's results with the Urd. However, this would require a CD with stimulus signal.

    Trying to make out measurements is complex. One cannot simply provide a link to a set of measurements in isolation however excellent the singular numbers are (and however excellent the tester), and proclaim "disbelief" at another's subjective impressions, particularly when the device in question has not yet been tested. What you've done, your argument, makes absolutely no sense.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2023
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Then call people out on their hyperbole / FOTM or ask for clarification.

    Passively aggressively attacking people with weak rhetorical devices (e.g., playing the Schiit card, proclaiming others have expectation bias - when it's clearly obvious you do, providing links to measurements to your own gear (which has nothing to do with anything here) then saying you are not bits are bits, using false unequivalent comparisons, etc.)

    Grow up dude. This isn't the first time you've pulled off this shit. I don't think I've ever come down on you so hard before, but you are just REALLY F'ING WEIRD, man.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2023
  9. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    I'd love a comparison between the Holo Red and the Urd. That is with a Schiit DAC. The Holo Red supposedly sounds really good.

    A subjective comparison of course.
     
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  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yep. A few subjective notes. Long term blind even.

    Then @GoldenOne's jitter spectrums.
     
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  11. rfernand

    rfernand Almost "Made"

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    @purr1n : do you have any insight as to what exactly @baldr was chasing from a sound/tech/measurable POV when having a unison-to-unison connection?

    This seems to be the kicker and I haven’t a clue of what to even think of measuring there - jitter only?
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    No idea. I can only guess. What Mike did here appears to be modern reinterpretation of what he did at Theta using the ST glass fiber to carry SPDIF from the CD transport to the DAC. I'm sure after Unison was developed, the Mike/Dave/Ivana team wondered how Unison would sound as a CD to to DAC data transmission mechanism. Unison was already known to measure much better than the Cmedia stuff*. Heck, even ASR lauded Unison.

    As for what Mike was chasing. That's easy. It either sounds "good" or sounds "like ass". It's pretty binary with him. Brilliant guy, but enjoying reproduced music was a very simple endeavor with him. People forget Mike invented or was one of the first who invented the concept of jitter for digital.

    *Yes, the USB out from the source device matters. I still preferred pi2AES over Unison unless I used a certain USB PCI card on my PC: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...usb-break-out-pci-usb-card-with-unison.11822/

    P.S. I actually have not heard Urd using a CD for playback to a DAC! And the most I will say about Unison from USB is that it sounds different not necessarily better. From most USB out sources, Unison is a bit too "tubey" for me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2023
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    So thinking about this more, the APx555 jitter measurements suck balls. I mean, WTF does 5ps mean at 50Hz? I F'ING HATE SINGULAR NUMBERS. Here's another idea. Totally unbaked, so there's good chance this could be a dead end. Hey, at least I'm trying to be creative.

    The idea is a 3D plot that shows us the spectrum for test tones from 20Hz to 20kHz. Any numbers there are for illustrative purposes.
    upload_2023-7-21_23-13-54.png

    Any grad students out there? Because AP ain't gonna do this stuff, and if they do, it's gonna be a $6000 software upgrade.
     
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  14. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2023
  15. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    Imma argue with everyone and say that measurements don't tell you how something sounds. You have to trust your ears. Sure, FR will give a good indication but nothing will tell you how something good or bad is to you except your ears. And if you use measurements to tell you whether or not you like something, then I feel bad for you because your enjoyment isn't coming from the music.
     
  16. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

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    Banter aside, I really want to hear one of these.

    Seriously now.
    Jitter RMS has always been weird to me.
    How could old transports do it so well? Maybe they didn't go deep enough.
    Also how does the TL 1 measure so well comparatively with such a basic mechanism?
    (20Hz-50kHz)RMS
    upload_2023-7-21_22-45-20.png
    source: Stereophile

    Aside: Damn the Red has a pretty big spike from the power supply o_O
    Subjectively many people enjoy it over others mentioned though.
     
  17. RestoredSparda

    RestoredSparda Friend

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    Ok, to make up for my honestly over the top statement, and to ensure I'm not insane, I did some back and forth listening with the song Jambi from Tool's 10,000 Days. (I'm limited on CDs until I can do some digging in my closet and I know this album and song well).

    Below is IMO!

    The setup....
    Holo Audio Red (streaming local files burned from the same CD version of the album through Roon) -> USB out to Unison Yiggy A2 -> DNA Stratus V3 -> ZMF Atrium

    VS.
    Schiit Urd playing CD copy -> USB out to Unison Yiggy A2 -> DNA Stratus V3 -> ZMF Atrium

    • Urd seems to have that Moffat bass. First thing I noticed was more prominent drum hits.
    • Urd has a wider headstage. Sounds are more out of my head, not depth but width. Further left and right when things pan (which happens often in Tool songs).
    • Urd makes my foot start tapping right when the song starts. IDFK, just seems to get me going.
    • Seem to be picking up on more plankton/details with instruments and vocals. Hearing a tiny bit more of the gravel in Maynards voice.

    Obviously Urd doesn't make the Red "shit", and the Red still sounds excellent in comparison. I may have been a bit over the top in my first comments no doubt. Lol. Anyways, wanted to get this thread back on track with impressions.

    For the record, I can tell dick for difference between Red and Urd when using coaxial.
     
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  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I suspect the Urd --Unison--> Yggdrasil gives the Schiit ecosystem a leg up because both source and destination may speak the same Unison "language". In-house developed USB, with both source and destination optimized for each other. I don't think Winders considered this.
     
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  19. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    What? A TOTL CD-only drive on separate linear power supply and A few PIC32 microcontrollers running task-specific custom firmware against an ARM chip running Linux? Mike Moffat is the kind of OCD mofo to store WAVs because it's less processing: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter.784471/post-12202483.

    Your audibility/new toy syndrome criticism wasn't bad, but there's no objective basis for your own toy being better. Feel free to hedge your bets, but please cut the hubris.
     
  20. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    Thanks for posting your thoughts, I greatly appreciate it. If possible could you try Red USB out into URD then into Stratus? I’m curious to see if you get the same results as URD CDT into Stratus.

    Thanks :)
     

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