Schiit Vidar vs NC502MP

Not gonna lie, this convo just makes me wonder what a pair of active desktop monitors by Schiit might end up costing cuz if they're gonna go hyperefficient futuretech D I doubt they'll waste a whole chassis for it. May as well slap some decent transducers on it then!

 

Purely theoretical I imagine, understood.

Suffice to say that the market for _actually good_ active monitors may be a race to the bottom like with GPUs (Gigabyte comes to mind), but there'll likely always be a contingent of enthusiasts.

Though yeah most sane people would just have passives and a nice box tucked away somewhere out of sight, or prominently displayed depending on how ostentatious they are

 

I’m well aware of the current ubiquitous state of class D in mass consumer applications. My point was that future Class D technology in high end audio has more potential than Class AB. An example is GaN. Another technology is flexible voicing of the amp by bending the FR digitally to mimic tubes or create a more analytical sound.

[/QUOTE]I can see Schiit jumping on to class D if they can figure out how to make it not sound like shit. Maybe they will. TBH, I see a class G/H as more likely.[/QUOTE]

Evaluating SQ is subjective but why do you think the latest products from Hypex and Purifi sound like shit?

 

Why the fluffernutter would a company who prides itself on innovation and doing cool stuff their own way... make an amp with someone else's modules???

 

For the same reason Schiit makes DACs with someone else’s DAC chips (ESS or Analog Devices). Schiit doesn’t have the technology to make their own DAC chips. Schiit doesn’t have the resources to make their own Class D modules either.

 

And yet they had the resources to produce a proprietary digital filter to use with medical grade DAC chips that no one else had used for audio, produced their own turntable design from scratch, was innovative enough to advance USB digital audio technology taking the digital interface from crap status to something that often equals or exceeds AES/EBU, and has successfully produced various amplifier stages utilizing vacuum tubes and many solid state based designs, that show that they aren't married to a singular technology....and I'm sure I have left out many other examples of Schiit innovations from the last decade that prove when the ideas prove to yield great sounding products at non-esoteric prices they find a way to come up with the resources.

So Jim, you clearly are talking out of your posterior.

 

My dude in a dour mood, how many extremely vaunted vendors do you think use off-the-shelf chips and just engineer the bejeebus out of everything else in the box to min-max performance (if they're not being disingenuous) and then add an expensive chassis to round out the BoM?

I'm not even in the field but it ought be common knowledge that the amount of money to begin fabbing semiconductors is Bezos pocket change level cost.

 

Funny, for the last couple weeks I've been listening to our prototype Singularity Converter, which has no off-the-shelf DAC—it uses our own in-house developed noise shaping algorithms and delta-sigma modulator. With Unison USB and our own digital filter and Nexus discrete output, it literally uses no off-the shelf stuff at all--no standard USB receiver, no standard digital filter, no standard DAC, no op-amps for I/V or gain. Still a proto, but we certainly have the capability to eschew off-the-shelf DACs..

We previewed an even earlier version of Singularity last year at the Schiitr: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-6729#post-17186913

Also of note: we experiment with lots of stuff. A couple years back, we took prototype Class D in-house to beyond current commercial levels (GaN, 3MHz). Still not for us. That said, there's a ton of interesting things you can do with alternate amplifier topologies, both analog and digital, and maybe eventually we'll find something we want to run with.

So, in summation: we'll continue going our own way, thanks.

 

Singularity reminds me of Audio GD, been there do not wanna go there again.

slogan for yours could be:

singularity done right

 

I had no idea and am humbled.

 

Less than a dozen hours on the VTV Pascal and it is at least more lively and macrodynamic than the handful of super cheap recent class-d amps i've shuffled through for summertime use, namely the Fosi TB10D and the Aiyima A07. I haven't dug out my Trends TA-10 in a while, but I might need to do that. The VTV Pascal so far is even tonally, slightly dry, and a little less vivid in the lower midrange, but that's compared to my Elekit 8600. Compared to the Fosi it is indeed more resolute and harmonic content seems to come forward more, compared to the note fundamentals. The treble is surprisingly clean and non fatiguing, but presents a bit more forwardly into the room, staging-wise. It's HiFi involving™, but I'm not sure if I prefer that type of presentation. Bass is taut and clean, though i'm not listening to anything too demanding right now, but it is a little over-emphasized in the physical punch frequency range, probably around 100-200hz; the leading edges of bass drum kicks are just a little too forward. Overall, the VTV Pascal is more about fireworks and large soundstage size than convincing tonality. IOW, I don't dislike it; nothing is jumping out as "incorrect" though it certainly is missing some of the body and tone that impress me w/ the Elekit, especially at lower listening levels. I wouldn't call the VTV strident, tonally, or (in the other direction) limpdick or insipid dynamically, either. Overall, it's a different presentation than I'm used to with my daily driver 300B amp, so I'll need to spend some more time with it to see if it's worth keeping around. At ca. $500, it's a definite maybe. Going on memory, it's a bit less sugary-sweet than my old Aegirs, but too is the Elekit, with the Elekit gaining the added bonus of nailing HF extension and cleanliness with midrange palpability, even with "cheap" tubes.

 

Circling back around on this. The VTV Pascal isn't staying. For $90-ish (plus bougie discrete opamp replacements) one can get a very, very similar sound in the the upper midrange and treble with the new Fosi V3 and rolling the stock NE5532 opamps to something like the Sparkos Labs SS3602s. Yeah, it's almost a wash cost-wise if you're used to spending $X,000 on an amp, but the Fosi V3 has better evenness between the bass and midrange and still feels clear and uncolored, unforced and at ease. It exhibits less of the slightly exaggerated punchy bass that the VTV has. The Fosi has less expansive soundstaging, but also presents a little less forwardly into the room than the VTV. In summation, the Fosi fits a little better with my preferences. Neither replace my Elekit, but for mid-volume summer listening, I'm content with the cheapo modded Fosi.

 

I totally disagree with this assessment. Class D has gotten MUCH better with the latest modules such as the Purifi Eigentakt, the Hypex Ncore X or the Hypex Nilai DIY kit.

I’ve owned the Emotiva BasX A300 Class A/B amp for about 6 years. Recently I upgraded to the VTV Purifi Eigentakt. The difference is quite audible. The Eigentakt is dead silent, more transparent, and more detailed. The soundstage is wider as well. Vocals are more organic with the Eigentakt. Plus the amp never gets more than lukewarm, is compact and light weight, about 95% efficient.

I only paid $379 for the BasX 300 six years ago. It’s a great amp for the price but it cannot compete with Eigentakt.

I know that comparing measured performance such as SINAD is not respected on this site. However, Emotiva amps do not measure very well, with a SINAD of ~70. The Eigentakt measures a SINAD ~105. Like it or not measured performance will show itself in SQ.

 

Saying a class is crap is like saying a car engine class is crap. There are good and there are bad in all of them.


@yotacowboy - Not surprised you are not keeping the Pascal.

About 6 years ago or so I had one of their board based amps built by an ee friend for a few weeks of audition. Pretty lean and uninteresting overall.

 

NAD has embraced Class D in a big way. I love the retro look of this integrated that uses Hypex Moduals. https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-3050-stereophonic-amplifier/