Seas A26 kit

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by murphythecat, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    Received my A26 speakers, initial impressions are: I dont miss my shl5+ too much. Bass is better, but less extension.my measurements show the speakers being flat down to 50hz, then rapid roll off, so useful info down to 35 ish, good enough for me. it uses the mundorf silver/oil evo cap. the mid and tweeter is perfectly flat, straight line. impressive.

    Initial impressions are with the 10 ohm resistor, and i will definitely want to raise it to 15 ohm to lower the tweeter gain, as i find the sound slightly too bright. Its awesome that i get to play with the tweeter level so easily just by changing the resistor.

    for fun, I simply removed the binding post going into the tweeter to see how the Seas woofer sounded widerange (the woofer has no low pass in front, directly connected to the amp basically) and it sounds very good, nothing harsh even at loud volume, so its a very well behaved woofer that indeed dont need a low pass at all. clever design by seas.

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...6-10-2-way-kit-pair-based-on-the-classic-a25/
     
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Not as weird / different from the more traditional designs that we might think? Trust in Seas. They know how to make good drivers and some of their lower priced paper stuff is lower priced only because they use paper. Again, it's not in Seas DNA to make nebulous blurry sounding stuff.

    I would have had mine up already had I not been travelling for work.
     
  3. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Cool. How long have you run them in for? The bass and midrange should only get better over time as the driver breaks in.

    Are you saying overall sound quality they are close to the Harbeth’s? Or just the bass extension/quality?

    I’m auditioning a pair of Graham LS6 monitors, which apparently use “custom” Seas drivers, and I’m pretty impressed by them. Only a 6.5” woofer (ported) but seems to go pretty deep considering (rated down to 45Hz +/- 2dB).
     
  4. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex Grumpiest admin

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    The big question is the mid-range crossover point between drivers. Would need to hear in person to figure out how cleanly it integrates.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I'm actually glad that the 10" woofer doesn't extend lower at the expense of decreased efficiency or strange non-linearities from big-time excursion. I believe that @murphythecat may have said that bass lives in the midbass or the real reason for big woofers is the beautiful midbass, not necessarily the extension.

    It will need fine. We took apart Craig's huge JBL 3-ways only to find no low pass on the 15". The paper 15" just rolls off naturally, the rest is first order single coils and caps. Absolutely brilliant from JBL back in the day. Or maybe they were being thrifty.

    If it's a problem, nothing a coil won't fix.
     
  6. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    ok, ive measured the speakers, they are impressively flat.

    what I need to say to everyone who consider those, do try the tweeter on the inside rather then on the outside. the "normal" way is to place the tweeter outside. well in my room, for both L and R measured separately of course, it gives much less flat FR. when you put the tweeter on the inside, it gives a flat response.
    look at my measurment. the mic havent moved, only the speaker have changed. the flat speaker is the tweeter on the inside (closer to the listening position)


    so yeah, in my room it measure better with tweeter on the inside.... much better actually. for both sides. and imaging is also improved

    ps: the speakers are not well placed in my room, so dont look at the not so flat FR under 1khz :). I'll soon find a better spot for them.

    more impression to follow. so far, its no harbeth shl5+ killer. merely different. more raw, less refined, but more alive and "live" feeling. It reminds me of the wideband speakers Ive had in the past, the same immediacy. The bass is good, but its not a 12 inch woofer. The woofer magnet is tiny, probably needed for the smooth HF roll off. I can live with that bass though.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  7. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    not as clean as what im used too, id say. its a trade off though as the no component in front of the woofer and only a 1st order ( 1 cap and 1 resistor) in front of the tweeter makes for a slight overlap between woofer/tweeter. benefits are immediacy and good phase behavior (I think?)

    funny, I had the Graham ls5/9 here about a year ago for 4 months. nice speakers.

    Ill have the Harbeth shl5+ here for a few week to compare later this week with the Seas a26, so will be able to say more. Initial impressions are positive, especially for the money.

    yes, the speakers need some break in, been played about 20 hours if i had to guess from what the first owner told me. the Mundorf silver/oil caps needs at least 100 hours to burn in. I hope break in will give even better bass.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    As an aside, I think more people are going to bitch about the bass not being sufficient given the aperiodic loading scheme. It's the opposite of the guilty pleasure of Harbeth bass.

    For speakers, apply 1/3 smoothing on FR because of room interactions.

    This speaker is gonna scale like a mofo. Reason I am interested in this speaker: Schiit Aegir or alternatively a vintage Pioneer M-22. Heck, throw the Pass class A stuff in there too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  9. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex Grumpiest admin

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    But will it beat the dipoles and horns with the dipole bass and minimal crossovers?

    Would be good to get some of those JBL 15s. I’m certain eminence would take a stab at replicating that kind of design.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Not overall, but they will have much better FR, cost a lot less, and have higher WAF.
     
  11. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

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    Your way placing the tweeters on the inside is the right way to do it. The reason being that the localisation of a sound source is dependent on the frequency of the signal. At low frequnecies (half of the wavelength bigger than distance right ear left ear) the interaural time difference is more important at higher frequencies ITD is less important and interaural level difference is more important for localisation. This leads to the fact thaat higher frequencies are perceived as being farther of centre.

    see slide 18 of this document: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...aration.pptx&usg=AOvVaw2vTzoR2Ed9iGI3V8cgLVUp

    If an instrument has a wide frequency range it may become bloated or smeared. Arranging the speakers so that the tweeters are closer to each other than the woofers can reduce this phenomenon.

    There is also the possibility to use acourate FLOW:

    https://www.audiovero.de/en/acourateconvolver.php

    Basically this introduces some crosstalk in order to improve localisation (and thereby imaging). There maybe a reason why some prefer vinyl with its naturally imperfect channel seperation compared to digital.
     
  12. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex Grumpiest admin

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    Some thoughts:
    1. Go single cap on the mid/tweeter and amp the drivers separately. Might be a good experiment. AF on the mid/tweeter + Aegir on the woofer.
    2. Try the woofer with other options. Lowther or moth driver + a cap with your Oris Horns? Maybe even throw in a super tweeter.
    3. Once you figure out the rest, would love to explore big woofer integration to eek out the last bit of the lows.
    Knowing you, you were planning on all of this though.
     
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  13. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    Ive been playing pink noise at loud volume for 24 hours. Bass have improved. at low volume, there's real tactility in the bass. you hear the "wham" of the kick, the rumble of the bass, small changes in the bass are portrayed, even at low volume. The shl5+ bass is decent, but your missing that. Its not a jbl 4430 or jbl l200/300 bass, but I dont feel like im missing anything in the bass either.

    I'm impressed, nothing jumping at me and saying "wrong". The Seas a26 sound quite integrated as a whole. you dont hear the tweeter playing alone either, its integrated with the mids smoothly. bass to mids also well integrated.

    this is exactly the reason i moved on the shl5+ and exactly what I wanted bass wise. I felt that my genelec 1037b was just way too good in the bass and that even though the shl5+ mids/treble was so much better then the gens, the difference in bass quality was just too big, I wanted the gens sort of bass..

    The shl5+ are in my room, will compare directly. will be able to point negatives easier cause so far I dont hear much problems. My GF is a beast when it comes to pointing problems, she's ruthless lol. I hear slight brigthness, but really nothing excessive at all, and ill just put in the 12 ohm resistor to lower the treble by 2db and be good i think.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  14. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    ok
    was totally wrong
    The shl5+ eat the seas a26 alive. the bass is much better, goes lower. the mids are better.
    Ive replaced the resistor and use 15 ohm so it lowered the treble. the only thing I prefer is the treble on the A26. the shl5+ are to my ears too bright, but its definitely much clearer, just in another league to be honest. Both measure surprisingly the same, both are as efficient. I can not fathom anyone finding the harbeth veiled.

    maybe my feeling will change, its hard to realize the deficiency of the A26 by itself. its only when compared directly, in the same room, to the shl5+ that it becomes clear that the shl5+ are just in another league. Dont get me wrong, the A26 are fun speakers, but they dont match the top to bottom coherency, integration, seductiveness of the Harbeth. no way.




    I have about 40 hours on the drivers. is it possible its a break in situation that it sounds just ok now and that will open up considerably?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
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  15. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    I let pinknoise fullblast for 24 hours and will continue for another 3 days.

    yesterday, i found the sound muffled of the A26 muffled. maybe it was the 15 ohm mills resistors,I put the 12 ohm back as it was too dark.

    My GF was here tonight and she has good ears and shes so uninterested in audio that she makes a good judge!
    the A26 didnt sound too bad this time. Its not a night and day difference going between shl5 and A26 and yesterday I felt it definitely was. The Shl5 extends lower, but the A26 have better punch. bass synths really comes out as bass synths, it gives a large bass sounds.

    I will let the drivers run in for a good week before making any judgments.
     
  16. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I would put some music on for a while during your break-in period as well. Something that gets your woofers moving - pink noise may be ok for certain aspects, but it doesn’t contain any transients that would give the spider and other moving parts a workout.

    I usually run some fairly dynamic music selections, something with bass that causes some woofer excursion, at moderate-to-slightly-high volumes.

    If running them with music for a long period of time is too annoying for you or the neighbors (especially the bass) I will sometimes set the speakers face to face a few inches apart and reverse the polarity of one of the speakers so that they cancel each other out - does a pretty decent job with the low frequencies. Also you can put a few blankets over top of the pair of speakers to dampen some of the other frequencies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  17. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    ok, the 12 ohm is still bit too bright, I have ordered good MRA12 mills 15 ohm and 18 ohm. I have to also say I find the shl5 too bright, and both measure the same in the treble and mid relation

    one thing though, the harbeth and seas a26 have the exact same efficiency. as you can see of the measurements of the A26 woofer, in reality its only at 1khz that its 90db efficiency, the rest of the FR is more like 87/88db efficiency

    http://www.seas.no/index.php?option...6re4&catid=44:utv-prestige-woofers&Itemid=192
     
  18. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    All in all, for $1,000 USD these seem pretty damn good considering what you're comparing it to. Front ported making it even easier for placement. Thanks for sharing these!
     
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  19. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    ok, break in is over.
    seems to have big improvements all across the board. Sound is big, detailed, musical. Bass is strange, big bass, but lacking in extension. Ultimately, id say the sound is a bit soft, lacking in ultimate drive, but i wont complain.

    My measurements shows extension almost flat to 50hz, useful down to 30hz for sure, but sub bass freaks would benefit from a big sub.

    My measurements show, just like the published measurements of the A26 woofer a dip at 500hz of about 4 db. I dont mind too much but thought worth mentioning. I use the 12 ohm resistor and it sounds neutral, and the tweeter with the 12 ohm measure pretty much like a flat line. I prefer the tweeter less present so will experiement with 15 and even 18 ohm to suit my taste. Once the tweeter is tuned in my taste, it will be time to compare with the shl5+.

    Seas recommend to use only 50g of polyfill in the cabinet. basically its really like if there's no filling and absorption. Ive wanted to know what is your experience with using damping in the cabinets? Harbeth use very thick foam in their speakers which makes sense to me as the back wave goes directly back thrue the cone without absorption behind the driver...
     
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  20. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Your choice. More fill = less leakage back through the cone. Less fill = snappier transients. Depends upon the driver too. With limited fill, I'd explore ways to suspend most of it directly behind the woofer if it isn't already.
     
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