Sennheiser HD650 Love (Appreciation Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Sep 27, 2015.

Tags:
  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I got 1-2db increase at 100db. What is the output Z of your amp? 6db shouldn't happen unless your output Z is sky high. The rear damping foam lowers the impedance bump at 100Hz a little bit. Without the damping foam, the impedance bump goes higher. It's a trade off. No foam also gives the HD650 sharper more lively transient response, which most seem to prefer.

    I completely cut out the plastic spider to better mount a Dynamat ring over the magnet. In case anyone has not seen this yet, here is an update on the effects Dynamat including measurements. I would say the measurement results are significant. It turns out that the standard FR graph is not the way to go to see the differences. Full spectrum tells us more:
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...d650-dynamat-mods-proof-that-its-not-bs.2098/

    BTW, those coming from K701 or Q701 might prefer the HD600. The HD650 is supposed to have a more laid-back sound. This fact should not be forgotten. Just because there is "HD650 love", doesn't mean you will like its sound. Also, the HD650 seems to be very demanding of amps and upstream gear; and finally, the context of "HD650 love" includes the modifications being discussed. I actually find the stock HD650 slightly on the boring side.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Linking to this post from first page.
     
  3. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    In the wind, so to speak
    Home Page:
    I'm going to update that index soon with a 1-sentence synopsis of each thing linked to, to make it more useful.
     
  4. numbercube

    numbercube Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Germany
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  5. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,764
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    U.S.
    Now that I've got a better setup (bifrost coming next week), I think it's time I try some mods. Not doing the coin mod as I find the treble perfect as is. Would like to have better bass definition and speed though. Reading through the thread, it looks like I'll just need to do the dynamat correct? Any adverse effects of doing JUST the dynamat and no foam removal/coin mod?
     
  6. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    In the wind, so to speak
    Home Page:
    I think you'll get improved bass quality with no downside.

    I dislike bright tonal balances and have enjoyed the dynamat + rear foam + AKG foam coin mod, but I suspect getting the best results from that set of mods requires removing the rear spider, which is very non-reversable.
     
  7. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, ME
    I didn't remove the rear spider for months and the dynamat sounded pretty good, but sounds better now that I removed it and added a bit of material over the magnet. Would stress rear foam removal, as this helps sound stage to get that airy feel, a bit speedier sound (might have made that up) and I felt it helped small detail too?

    Coin mod doesn't elevate treble much, just as much to timprove clarity. Doesn't make this sound bright at all. I would give it a try, worst case scenario you have to buy $3 worth of foam and cut some new ones out.
     
  8. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    Realistically, that portion of foam in front of the exposed part of the driver is doing very little to change the overall sound. It's more about having something over the edges of the driver and the rest of the baffle, which does much more to attenuate and smooth treble as well as essentially not make the baffle as breathable. Too breathable of a baffle means loss of bass. Treble is smoother and better integrated overall with foam around edge of driver. That small thing in the middle? Not doing much, like I said. If anything, it comes down more to the weird subjective stuff where having too much crap in front of a driver stifles dynamics and clarity even if measurable differences are almost nonexistent.
     
  9. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,764
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    U.S.
    Thanks everyone. I'll start with the dynamat and work my way from there with the other mods. Will probably be awhile before thinking about taking the plastic webbing off the back of the driver since that is an irreversible change.
     
  10. mawk

    mawk Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    18
    OK, I've just acquired second hand HD650s. Although the guy I bought from told me they were the updated version with the silver material around the drivers, I've just whipped the pads off and everything is looking distinctly black in there. Silver box too.

    Is it worth trying to negotiate a refund, or should I stick with the black version? Consensus seems to be that the newer silver version is less veiled but has anyone actually measured this? Is the old black version still a worthwhile purchase?
     
  11. Prydz

    Prydz Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Norway
    Yes, negotiate a refund even tho it will be difficult. If you have spoken about him regarding the driver and have it in email then he should refund.
     
  12. Artasia

    Artasia Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    441
    Trophy Points:
    63
    That is frustrating. He should refund. Any chance you can attach or link a picture to the black drivers?
     
  13. Vent

    Vent Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Likes Received:
    296
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ordered the Dynamat. Headfirst down the rabbit hole.
     
  14. FlySweep

    FlySweep Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,412
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I've been driving my (modded) 650 off a Geek Out V2+ Infinity (balanced) for the better part of this year. Mods on my 650 are: quarter mod, strategic dynamat, and rear foam removal. Last night, I finally clipped off the plastic spider cages.. and the improvement was immediately identifiable to me.

    Most apparent was the improved overall clarity. In fact, the improvement here was actually kind of startling in how obvious it was. I sensed a more cohesive soundstage and more precise imaging. Instruments panned more naturally "in front" of you (speaker-like) vs having a typical "three blob" effect and layering was more easily discernable.

    Next, the treble was definitely smoother (less peaky) and less resonant. Again, to my ears, this was very apparent (not entirely surprising since I'd say I'm quite familiar with the nuances of my current rig since it's been unchanged for quite some time). With the cage in place (and rear foam removed), I sensed better treble resolution and extension.. but there was a certain glare or resonance after careful, extended listening. It was something I was noticing more and more and began to think the cause was my (stock) pads wearing down (despite them being fairly new and plush). Hell, with certain recordings, the 650 was getting borderline fatiguing (whaaa!?), in fact. Turns out the culprit was, indeed, the plastic spider cage. With the cages off, treble sound more natural, cleaner, and closer to the stock 650's response.. but with better extension, more balanced presence, and improved clarity.

    I'd go as so far to say that if you're modding your 650, clipping off the spider cage is a must do/no-brainer mod.. and in my case, an absolute necessity (especially if you've already removed the rear foam). As a few others have stated, the effect that clipping off the cage has goes hand in hand with the other SBAF/650 mods.. and it also offers a very noticeable improvement to the 650.. far more than I imagined, actually.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  15. zonto

    zonto Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    How easy is it to clip off the cage and what did you use to do so? I've seen tweezers recommended before.
     
  16. BrettMatthews

    BrettMatthews Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Likes Received:
    201
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Canada
    Very easy, it's soft plastic. @Mikoss and I used a pair of small side cutters, the fine type ones that make a nice flush cut on zipties.
     
  17. FlySweep

    FlySweep Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,412
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Very easy.. if you have the right tool, of course. I used some small wire cutters.
     
  18. Jun

    Jun Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    169
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Just cut at the red lines and then bend them off its easy.

    As I have said the spider removal is the best mod IMO.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    Thankfully, the plastic spider is only attached at the end of each spoke, so near the edge of the magnet. Just get a wire clipper or similar in there.

    NOTE: Do this upside down, so to speak, so that you don't have plastic pieces fall into the open spot in the magnet!

    Also, front spider removal is not worth it, FYI.
     
  20. mawk

    mawk Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I ended up negotiating a better price and keeping the black material 650s rather than continuing to hunt for the newer version... Hopefully everything will work out, they don't sound overly veiled to me so far (and this coming from DT990s).

    As I don't have a warranty to fret about I suppose I can just jump right into modding - would anyone happen to have a spare bit of dynamat? I'm willing to pay postage to NZ plus whatever you think is fair!
     

Share This Page